Seimens brk in GE box

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jetlag

Senior Member
Location
Eatonton, Georgia
I got flaged today for having seimens breakers in a GE panel box. I thought they would interchange .There are sure a lot of out there that way . They look the same to me , they have the slot across the end to accept the side tabs where the thin breakers go in GE. Why else would seimens homeline and others put the slot there?
 
Simple answer.... the UL only checks out certain breakers for use in certain panels. There are "classified replacement" breakers that are rated for a multitude of panels. A Seimens breaker in a GE panel will never fly. Neither one is rated for that combination. I think the only other panel a Siemens breaker is rated for is the old ITE panels.
 
I think BR has breakers that are listed for use in panels other then BR Panels.
Check the listings. I don't know if ITE has followed that or not. My guess is no.
I don't know why the slot is their.
 
buckofdurham said:
I think BR has breakers that are listed for use in panels other then BR Panels.
Click to expand...

Yes, they are identical to "BR" series breakers but are actually called Type CL (for "Classified")

As an aside, Murray and Siemens Type MP and Type QP respectively are not interchangeable, despite being identical products made by the same company. You'd think they would list their loadcenters listed for use with both breaker types. :confused:
 
buckofdurham said:
I think BR has breakers that are listed for use in panels other then BR Panels.
Check the listings. I don't know if ITE has followed that or not. My guess is no.
I don't know why the slot is their.
Click to expand...
Im glad to find that out there are 2 other ahj in that office and I usually work in their territory . They have never flagged me on that. The breaker companys sure go to a lot of trouble to make sure their breakers fit others even though not listed. For example Homeline has an extra hump behind the lug that keeps other breakers from going all the way in .Wasnt long before seimens made the slot longer on theirs to fit up to 50 amp. Above 50 amp the slot is not cut and still wont fit. Br did the same. Do you think any of the breakers I have installed over the years will give trouble? I have never had a call back for that.
 
peter d said:
As an aside, Murray and Siemens Type MP and Type QP respectively are not interchangeable, despite being identical products made by the same company. You'd think they would list their loadcenters listed for use with both breaker types. :confused:
Click to expand...
I've even drilled them apart, and they are identical in every possible way, except for the stickers.
 
mdshunk said:
I've even drilled them apart, and they are identical in every possible way, except for the stickers.
Click to expand...

I'll go so far to admit that I've used Siemens breaker in Murray panels, and vice versa. ;)
 
peter d said:
I'll go so far to admit that I've used Siemens breaker in Murray panels, and vice versa. ;)
Click to expand...
Uh-huh. Me too. Had some AFCI's to put in a Seimens panel (retrofit) and the Siemens supply house didn't have enough. I finished up with Murray AFCI's from Lowe's.
 
jetlag said:
I got flaged today for having seimens breakers in a GE panel box. I thought they would interchange .There are sure a lot of out there that way . They look the same to me , they have the slot across the end to accept the side tabs where the thin breakers go in GE. Why else would seimens homeline and others put the slot there?
Click to expand...

IMHSO, this is one of the biggest scams going!

These breakers are all basically identical, with a different label slapped on the outside.

This is completely an issue of money and not a safety hazard!

Is anyone gonna tell me that a seimens 15A single pole breaker in a GE panel is gonna protect a circuit any differently than a GE 15A single pole breaker installed right next to it in the same panel. NO!

I can maybe buy this argument when it comes to AFCI or large frame breakers, but not the el cheapo run of the mill breakers.

The issue is that you bought a seimens breaker and didn't give your money to GE. GE doesn't want seimens breakers in their panels and thus haven't had UL test for that scenario.


End of rant!
 
Since this topic is still alive...do any of you remember the short-lived Thomas and Betts loadcenters? The breakers and loadcenters were practically identical to the Westinghouse/Challenger stuff of that time period, but not interchangeable.

The only listed replacement are Type CL breakers to my knowledge. I had a situation today where I needed some GFCI breakers to install in a T&B panel....so I used Cutler Hammer BR.
 
Installing Breakers That Are Not Listed For The Equipment Such As Ite In A Ge Panel Might Work Fine But If You Have A Fire Or An Insurance Claim For An Electrical Fault Explain To The Insurance Investigator That It Was Ok.::
 
buckofdurham said:
I think BR has breakers that are listed for use in panels other then BR Panels.
Check the listings. I don't know if ITE has followed that or not. My guess is no.
I don't know why the slot is their.
Click to expand...
I know why the slot is there on almost every brand of breaker, so they will go in a GE box with out getting stoped by the side tabs. It may not be listed but if it was a hazzard they wouldnt provide the GE slot, no other box has it.
 
Well here is a kicker for you. The new GE Combination ARC Fault CB's are made by Siemens. Look like a Siemens only difference is the sticker.
OK call me a liar but I have seen Siemens Panels that have Murray MP breakers listed on the panel cover. GE also uses CH type BR 50 and 60A 2 Pole GFI Breakers with their label for their Spa panels. Go Figure

Rick
 
r_merc said:
Well here is a kicker for you. The new GE Combination ARC Fault CB's are made by Siemens. Look like a Siemens only difference is the sticker.
OK call me a liar but I have seen Siemens Panels that have Murray MP breakers listed on the panel cover. GE also uses CH type BR 50 and 60A 2 Pole GFI Breakers with their label for their Spa panels. Go Figure

Rick
Click to expand...

I have a couple of Cutler-Hammer CHB 100A 2-pole breakers branded as GE.
 
EBFD6 said:
GE doesn't want seimens breakers in their panels and thus haven't had UL test for that scenario.End of rant!
Click to expand...
I'm sure they would be more than willing to test it if your foot the bill. :grin: :roll:

Think about that one. Why would a company test another company's parts in their panel?

If siemens wanted their breakers in a GE load center, siemens would pay for it.
 
The reason that the manufacturer's don't cross reference their breakers may have to do with copyright laws.

Even if their breaker was listed to interchange, the manufacturer couldn't use the name of the other manufacturer on any of their literature or advertisements.

Kinda like......It will interchange, but we cant tell you what it interchanges with.

The manufacturer of the breaker being copied would have to give permission for their competitior to use their name and breaker model.
I don't see that happening.

The Advertisement would have to be something like....

"Our breaker interchanges with the one whose manufacturer kinda sounds like "The guy that lives out west in a house :D .
or..."Gee, we wish we could tell you".:grin:
or..."My father was a seaman:grin:

You get the idea.

steve
 
1) The reason that you can't really depend upon the _untested_ interchangeability of these breakers is that there are subtle differences that might make for an unreliable connection. The support slot got mentioned, and I've heard reports of breaker/panel combinations that 'felt loose'.

2) Given the seemingly profit driven adoption of the AFCI requirements (discussed elsewhere :) ) how about some payback; would it be possible to craft code that requires these 'almost interchangeable' breakers to actually meet a common standard and actually truely be interchangeable? Thereby either forcing true interchangeability or forcing divergence.

-Jon
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top