Sensors wired fire alarm control panel fed from AC panelboard

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Can their be any such configuration as one shown below?

98b208b9a062e432db7208f4f6452a7c.jpg
 
hhsting said:
Can their be any such configuration as one shown below?
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If so, I missed it in R3 zones. And, would not be a qualified person to access that FACP enclosure.

Do encounter sprinkler cabinets in R3 zones, and 14-3 cable at the smokes, with the red wire used for data between 120v hardwired interconnected devices.
 
ramsy said:
If so, I missed it in R3 zones. And, would not be a qualified person to access that FACP enclosure.

Do encounter sprinkler cabinets in R3 zones, and 14-3 cable at the smokes, with the red wire used for data between 120v hardwired interconnected devices.
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Huh?


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Are they using relays with standard 120v smoke alarms with a red interconnect wire to trip the FACP? It works, but there is no device supervision and likely would not meet any NFPA requirements other than just local smoke alarms.

The way you have it drawn up it appears that they are 120v with a dry contact, which I have never seen produced.
 
I think your next important step is to read your special smoke detector installation instructions because it should give you guidance.

You've purposely mentioned smoke detector several times and emphasized not smoke alarm. Smoke detectors don't have notification . What's providing the notification of alarms.

Will your smoke detectors have secondary power?
 
ppsh said:
Are they using relays with standard 120v smoke alarms with a red interconnect wire to trip the FACP? It works, but there is no device supervision and likely would not meet any NFPA requirements other than just local smoke alarms.

The way you have it drawn up it appears that they are 120v with a dry contact, which I have never seen produced.
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Firex Kidde makes smoke and CO relays that will trip with their respective alarm
 
Manufacturer of Smoke detector! I know. You don't have it. Stop until you do. we can't help because your proposed system just doesn't seem right. Secondary power , notification , supervision ,reporting requirements. I simply ignorant of NFPA 101 and other building codes.
 
hhsting said:
Well smokes are 4 wire, 2 wire require 120V power and so they are hardwired with light circuit whose breaker is in AC panelboard that feed power to the assisted living and the other 2 wire are for data communication of FACP.

Their is exception 210.12( if circuits are installed in accordance with 760.41(B) or 760.121(B) shall AFCI can be omitted.
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No. Not ever. 4-wire smoke detectors (not alarms) are powered by the 12 or 24 volt DC auxiliary power output from the fire alarm control panel (FACP). They are also supervised by the panel on the second pair that transmits the alarm condition to the FACP. The OP's designer either has not explained whats going on or is...not someone who should be designing fire alarm systems. See here for a typical 4-wire smoke detector from System Sensor.
 
hhsting said:
Can their be any such configuration as one shown below?

98b208b9a062e432db7208f4f6452a7c.jpg
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If you put an auxiliary relay listed for use with the smoke alarms, you can make this work. However, as stated above, these alarms and the relay will be unsupervised, and unlikely to be approved by the AHJ.
 
gadfly56 said:
If you put an auxiliary relay listed for use with the smoke alarms, you can make this work. However, as stated above, these alarms and the relay will be unsupervised, and unlikely to be approved by the AHJ.
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What exactly do you mean by unsupervised? Can you please elaborate and what code says to have supervise?
 
hhsting said:
What exactly do you mean by unsupervised? Can you please elaborate and what code says to have supervise?
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With fire alarm control panel (FACP) based devices, especially addressable devices, the panel looks to see that the circuit is intact. For conventional devices, the indicating device circuit (IDC) is monitored for continuity. That's the purpose of the end-of-line resistor. If you pull a smoke detector off its base or get an open in the circuit you'll get a trouble signal at the FACP. For an addressable system, the signal line circuit (SLC) is used to poll the intelligent devices for their status. Again, if a device is missing or not operating properly, you'll get a trouble signal at the FACP. For the standard 120VAC hard-wired smoke alarms, if you pull one off its base, you'll never know it's missing. It could also be dead and you'd never know, baring a failure mode that makes it chirp first.

I'd also like to correct my prior statement, because NFPA 72-2016 allows you to hook up the 120VAC detectors to an FACP to alarm there as well (29.7.7.7 et seq), but they also have to alarm on their own.
 
gadfly56 said:
With fire alarm control panel (FACP) based devices, especially addressable devices, the panel looks to see that the circuit is intact. For conventional devices, the indicating device circuit (IDC) is monitored for continuity. That's the purpose of the end-of-line resistor. If you pull a smoke detector off its base or get an open in the circuit you'll get a trouble signal at the FACP. For an addressable system, the signal line circuit (SLC) is used to poll the intelligent devices for their status. Again, if a device is missing or not operating properly, you'll get a trouble signal at the FACP. For the standard 120VAC hard-wired smoke alarms, if you pull one off its base, you'll never know it's missing. It could also be dead and you'd never know, baring a failure mode that makes it chirp first.

I'd also like to correct my prior statement, because NFPA 72-2016 allows you to hook up the 120VAC detectors to an FACP to alarm there as well (29.7.7.7 et seq), but they also have to alarm on their own.
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Smoke detectors being used is Fire Lite by Honeywell SD365 series(A). Please see link below. Do they get power and everything from Fire alarm control panel and Not from 120V light circuit or not?


 
hhsting said:
Smoke detectors being used is Fire Lite by Honeywell SD365 series(A). Please see link below. Do they get power and everything from Fire alarm control panel and Not from 120V light circuit or not?


Click to expand...
Theses are definitely 2-wire detectors and they get their power from the fire alarm control panel. Page 1, under "Features", "SLC Loop", it says "Two-wire SLC loop connection." On page 3, under "Electrical Specifications" it says right there, "15 - 32 volts DC peak". The power comes from the SLC loop, which carries both power and data.
 
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