seperate connections or a big wire nut for sharing neutrals

[don_resqcapt19]

Roger,
Sorry about the misquote. The CMPs did this same thing for 2 or 3 of my proposals. I made an attempt to change 310.4 to say, "conductors smaller than 1/0 shall not be permitted to be run in parallel". The panel rejected the change saying that the words in the current code that say "conductors 1/0 and larger shall be permitted to be run in parallel", already prohibit the use of smaller conductors in parallel.
Don

 

[benaround]

detelec,

Don't forget to derate those 12 current carring conductors.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

detelec,

Don't forget to derate those 12 current carring conductors.

Wouldn't the neutrals be carrying the unbalanced loads and not need to be counted? If so, 8 CCC's, unless of course they are feeding nonlinear loads then it would be 12 CCC's.


Edit: This is assuming it is a single phase service, based on the 8 hots and 4 neutrals.

 

[detelec]

No need to have derating concerns

No need to have derating concerns

Benaround, There are only 8 current carrying connductors, you don't have to count the neutrals. Therfore, all my #12 wires are good for 20 amps.

Back to original post:
If it is a violation to tie all the neutrals under one wire nut why do you see it done so often. Is it just me or have you guys seen this done a lot?

 

[roger]

Back to original post:
If it is a violation to tie all the neutrals under one wire nut why do you see it done so often. Is it just me or have you guys seen this done a lot?

It is a violation and the reason is, lack of training/education, or simply hacks.

Roger

 

[hardworkingstiff]

If it is a violation to tie all the neutrals under one wire nut why do you see it done so often. Is it just me or have you guys seen this done a lot?

Actually, I've never seen it done.

 

[George Stolz]

Benaround, There are only 8 current carrying connductors, you don't have to count the neutrals. Therfore, all my #12 wires are good for 20 amps.

To be certain, what is the system in question? 120/240 single phase?

If it is a violation to tie all the neutrals under one wire nut why do you see it done so often. Is it just me or have you guys seen this done a lot?

In my experience, people tended to draw a line between paralleling conductors of the same circuit and tying two circuits together. What you described would not be done, but people wouldn't think twice about lumping the switchleg side of two threeways neutrals together. This is equally illegal.

I think it's a lack of education and concern. Folks can't visualize it doing any harm, so they don't think twice about it.