seperatly derived system

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JAMMAN

Member
Location
ny
Most of my electrical work is centered around the elevator industry. I recently had an inspector question the isolation transformers used on an elevator install. Typical elevator install requires a 3 phase step up isolation transformer. The higher voltage is fed into a 12 pulse SCR drive which converts ac to a controlled DC voltage which is then fed to a DC elevator motor. According to article 250.30 there needs to be a grounded conductor(Neutral) in the seperatly derived system in order for the requirements of grounding to be met.
Seperatly derived systems require grounding conductors to building steel structures or water mains. The problem I have is the elevator installation is in a concrete building with no structural steel. I cannot run grounding wire to building steel, so I have to run wire 65 floors to water main. I've never had this questioned before and think that this is an error on inspectors part. My transformers is not grounded a neutral conductor, therefore I believe that this seperatly derived system does not apply to me. Does anyone have any insight.
 

S'mise

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
It must be bonded according to art 250 parts V and VII But, I don't believe a Elevator falls under the definition of "premesis wiring system".

Therefore, I would not call it a seperately derived system. Not anymore than a control transformer inside a manufactured control panel would be a seperately derived system requiring it to be bonded to the water electrode.

Sorry, was that a run on sentence? :roll:
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
250.30 has three sections: (A) applies to grounded systems, (B) applies to ungrounded systems, while (C) applies only to an outside source. In either (A) or (B) case, there are grounding requirements regardless of whether the secondary is grounded or not, and both types must have a grounding electrode connection per 250.30(A)(4)... excluding only portable and vehicle mounted generators under 250.34.

Grounding of the neutral is determined under 250.20 thru 22. AFAICT, nothing in 250.21 or 250.22 applies. What is the voltage and configuration of the transformer secondary? You'd need what I call a six-phase secondary (equivalent to two wye secondaries with one inverted) to get a twelve-pulse rectified circuit. There's a gap in 250.20 thru 22, as none actually cover such if it is over 150V line to neutral.
 
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