SER Al Cable

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Stickboy, I have also, but the outer sheathing is usually stripped away. SE cables are not rated for underground burial or underground conduit raceway usage according to UL.
Larry, SEU is Service Entrance cable. The "U" designates Unarmored cable, while SER is for Round cable. There is SE-EZ also...but who cares.
 
gndrod said:
Larry, please divulge your source on the "U" Tx
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338.2 Definitions.
Service-Entrance Cable. A single conductor or multiconductor assembly provided with or without an overall covering, primarily used for services, and of the following types:

Type SE. Service-entrance cable having a flame-retardant, moisture-resistant covering.

Type USE. Service-entrance cable, identified for underground use, having a moisture-resistant covering, but not required to have a flame-retardant covering.
 
Larry, The Service Entrance Cable is only a good [338] definition and does not mean the cable category style. Type USE is a different style cable and is a direct burial where SE is not I am sorry to be so persistant but I am sitting on top of Southwire's technical handbook and the NEC at the same time.

I in no way do I want to give discrepant data and did not intend to seemingly know it all. I don't. Most of what I know is from years of wiring since 1956. I am starting to forget a lot of stuff though. I can't calculate my way out of a paper bag anymore. You know a lot more than I do I am sure. Contractors must... and I respect that.
 
If you read George's link, there was extensive discussion on this topic. I feel that SE cable in conduit underground is legal. Probabley ill advised if aluminum.
 
EEC said:
Article 388 does not have the R behind SE. Can SER al Cable be installed in PVC conduit buried underground? What code section deals with SER
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All of the AL. SER I have used has a bare ground conductor, witch would not last to long in a water filled conduit.
 
Hi acrwc10, I agree. SE cable is manufactured in both W and non wet type insulations.

Hi George, Southwire agrees with the UL restrictions to above ground use only. White Book Service Cable (TXKT and (TLYZ) See Type SE pp. 112. One reason is SE constructions (Cu or Al) inner conductor insulation is not always applicable to wet locations. Common types are THHN and THWN. SEU is manufactured with type XHHW. Go figure on that restriction. The fiber separator or sheathing entrapment must have something to do with the above-ground requirement.
 
Hello Don, and welcome to the forum. :)

Can you cite a code reference to fail the 3-wire USE with the single USE in the same trench?

Ben, did you check out the bunny trail I left on the first page? Essentially, the conclusion that was reached on the prior threads is that the term "Aboveground" is the opposite of "Underground." To the UL, "Underground" means directly buried. So, when they say "Aboveground" they mean "Not Directly Buried".

That would not preclude being installed in a conduit underground, IMO. ;)
 
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George, Good deductive reasoning. As long as the raceway is waterproof. Give Murphy and the water gods a chance and all bets are off. More than once underground conduits have been crushed by D9's or trucks. That's one reason I spell out that pull cords be put in the conduits before backfill and cable installs. Some times a wet pull cord is an indicator. Too many variables happen in our industry to give any chance of failure.

SE cable construction is almost perfect until it gets stressed physically and electrically. Am I paranoid or just overcautious in my old age. Too many reality checks from past experiences I guess. I have seen pvc joints fail because the installer only coated one end of joining sticks. Would you believe gushing water in a resi bedroom panel on a downhill slope after a hard rain because of a broken joint? Yes I am cautious...Water in a lateral conduit is 'direct burial'...Thanks for the data. I see a lot of good reasons.
 
SER is listed for wet locations. 300.5(B) requires conductors/cables listed for wet locations, not listed for direct burial.

I'd say what you're describing (water in conduits) is exactly why they're required to be listed for wet locations.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's a great idea, but legal.
 
Dang, George, I can't be wrong twice in one day. Iwire zapped me on 3way switch positions already. I am going back too far and I see it gets the mind in trouble. Maybe the SER is allowed for wet areas when using thwn but SER was constructed in thhn also and this is what makes the difference. I guess it's best to read the sheathing before buying....
 
georgestolz said:
Hello Don, and welcome to the forum. :)

Ben, did you check out the bunny trail I left on the first page? Essentially, the conclusion that was reached on the prior threads is that the term "Aboveground" is the opposite of "Underground." To the UL, "Underground" means directly buried. So, when they say "Aboveground" they mean "Not Directly Buried".
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George
Where did you exactly read that? Or do you know someone in UL who specifically told you this.

If you read the wording without any twisting, it says the cable is for aboveground... to me the raceway below grade is not aboveground.

I do not understand the reasoning for debating this simple point????????

The inside of a raceway below grade cannot be construed as aboveground.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
The inside of a raceway below grade cannot be construed as aboveground.
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Absolutely. Just as with the AC whip debate, a conduit is not a location. If the conduit is outdoors, underground, in a wet location, etc., so are the conductors within.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
George
Where did you exactly read that? Or do you know someone in UL who specifically told you this.

If you read the wording without any twisting, it says the cable is for aboveground... to me the raceway below grade is not aboveground.
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My source was this letter, to Mike Whitt from Austin Wetherell from the UL. To be honest, looking back at my post, I did add my own twist to what was written. Thanks for calling me on that.

I do not understand the reasoning for debating this simple point????????

The inside of a raceway below grade cannot be construed as aboveground.
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In can be construed, as I did in my last post. But that doesn't make me right. I'm gonna ponder this some more.

I'd feel better if it was flat-out forbidden underground. Just because something is intended for one use, doesn't prohibit it from everywhere else, at least not indisputably. Just my opinion, and I recognise it's a goofy one.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
If you read the wording without any twisting, it says the cable is for aboveground... to me the raceway below grade is not aboveground.
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One thing, to share this headache I've got:

Is a basement aboveground?
 
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