mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Using anything in violation of it's listing.mpd said:
ser cable
- Thread starter shockerz
- Start date
- Status
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
All I can think of in response to that is, "so what"? How else would a fella know if he's complying with 110.3(B)? No need for a redundant code section, which I don't believe is what we're dealing with here at all.mpd said:
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Bob, there are many rules in the Code that mirror the UL White Book just because there are so many who either do know the White Book is actually part of the Code book or do not even know that it exists. The Code Making Panels will take something from the White Book and move it into the Code just for that reason.iwire said:
An example is 240.85 that was placed into the Code as a FPN. In the 1996 cycle (I think), it was moved into mandatory text. Another FPN has been added since then.
- Location
- Massachusetts
charlie said:
I know Charlie, but you missed out on a long ongoing debate before the 2008 NEC about SER underground.
We actually had some UL info indicating that underground in a raceway was OK just not DB.
At this point the argument is moot as the 2008 NEC has made it clear as can be.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
iwire said:That is also what the instructor at my class said.
'The outside of a house is not a wet location'
Really? Have they never experienced a phenomena called "rain"?
dhducati
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Use
Use
On a related note, around here I see URD secondary wire listed as USE-2 (but not also as RHHW or XHHW) used partially inside (in conduit), and I also see it run in a mast from the meter base for overhead service. 338.12 of 2008 NEC clarifies that none of those uses are permitted, consistent with the UL white book.
Use
On a related note, around here I see URD secondary wire listed as USE-2 (but not also as RHHW or XHHW) used partially inside (in conduit), and I also see it run in a mast from the meter base for overhead service. 338.12 of 2008 NEC clarifies that none of those uses are permitted, consistent with the UL white book.
inspector141
Senior Member
- Location
- Westminster, MD
ser
ser
In the 05 code article 338.10(B), there are two areas where se cable is allowed. 1. Interior 2. Exterior. If the ser cable is not identified for underground installation, I don't know how it could be allowed. Exterior and underground are two totally different installations. Also, would the ser installation be condidered a sleeve or a complete conduit system? I would not allow ser cable to be pulled in a long conduit system, inside or outside, when there are say two or three bends in the conduit. Too much tension and friction in my view.
In the 08 code, case closed. 338.12
ser
In the 05 code article 338.10(B), there are two areas where se cable is allowed. 1. Interior 2. Exterior. If the ser cable is not identified for underground installation, I don't know how it could be allowed. Exterior and underground are two totally different installations. Also, would the ser installation be condidered a sleeve or a complete conduit system? I would not allow ser cable to be pulled in a long conduit system, inside or outside, when there are say two or three bends in the conduit. Too much tension and friction in my view.
In the 08 code, case closed. 338.12
dhducati
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
inspector141 said:
I don't see anything that prohibits pulling it in a long conduit system (above ground) providing that the conduit and bends are correctly sized. The 05 and 08 codes allows cables to be installed in many conduit types, where it is not prohibited by the relevant cable article (for example, 352.22 for PVC conduit). Why you might choose to do this for a long run is another story.
I used to think SER was OK underground in conduit because cables in conduit underground need to be suitable for wet areas, and SEU/SER are routinely installed in wet areas. I thought 05 left the door open on this, and I'm happy that 08 makes it clear. The 07 UL white book is equally clear. I don't know what earlier editions of the UL white book say. Perhaps they closed what I thought was an open door in 05.
I was reviewing the protection requirements for SE cable in 08. 338.12(A)(1) refers to protection in accordance with 230.50(A). But 230.50(A) is specifically for underground service-entrance conductors, and it is 230.50(B) that deals with all service entrance conductors other than underground. It looks to me like the reference is a typo. Anyway, 230.50(B)(1) specifically allows SE cable above ground in specific types of conduit for protection, and doesn't place any limitations on the length of the conduit.
Dave
- Location
- Massachusetts
inspector141 said:
You do not get to say no. The NEC does not prohibit it, other then in raceways underground.
Check .22 of any raceway Article.
'Cables shall be permitted to be in installed where such use is not prohibited by the respective cable Articles'.
The Article for SE does not prohibit installing SE in a raceway.
BTW, SE actually pulls very easily into raceways.
mthead
Senior Member
- Location
- Long Beach,NY
ser cable
To add another variation on the possible situation-load side of meter-SER [3-insulated conductors and the associated stranded bare grounds]sleeved in pvc-sill plate -then enters residence to bsm't panel immediately on other side of wall.
here is where the issue arises.The three insulated conductors[1 as the grounded or neutral conductor and the others as the 2 ungrounded conductors] were used -the stranded grounding conductor ,which is part of the listed cable assembly ,was cut away in the meter pan --you can also make the assumption that upon entering the panel it was terminated the same way-cut the stranded grounds because "they weren't needed".
Now we must also hope that the man working the panel side of this installation also would decide it was the stranded grounds that he wouldn't need--I say hope because we all know what happens on a friday afternoon when the mechanic is outside and the helper is inside--to "assume" is to invite murphy in.
So what are the comments on this scenario?
To add another variation on the possible situation-load side of meter-SER [3-insulated conductors and the associated stranded bare grounds]sleeved in pvc-sill plate -then enters residence to bsm't panel immediately on other side of wall.
here is where the issue arises.The three insulated conductors[1 as the grounded or neutral conductor and the others as the 2 ungrounded conductors] were used -the stranded grounding conductor ,which is part of the listed cable assembly ,was cut away in the meter pan --you can also make the assumption that upon entering the panel it was terminated the same way-cut the stranded grounds because "they weren't needed".
Now we must also hope that the man working the panel side of this installation also would decide it was the stranded grounds that he wouldn't need--I say hope because we all know what happens on a friday afternoon when the mechanic is outside and the helper is inside--to "assume" is to invite murphy in.
So what are the comments on this scenario?
inspector141
Senior Member
- Location
- Westminster, MD
iwire said:
SE pulls easily into raceways when:
1. There are no bends and or 90's
2. When sized properly. This is the area where I see the most violations and problems. When sizing the conduit, the actual dimension of the cable must be used when figuring conduit fill. also see FPN no 2 under table 1.
Very seldom is a conduit system sized properly when using cables. And that is when I say no.
Marty
- Status