service calls and permits

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101010

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I was wondering how you guys handle permits for service calls . I get a permit even if I install a cieling fan but now I try to stay away from the service calls just for that reason. Someone calls for a line for an ac unit ten feet from the panel do the majority of you get a permit? I wont go and give an estimate for such a small job ,I would give them a service call charge and hourly rate, then file for a permit. Are there any jobs that do not need a permit?
 
I only pull a permit for larger jobs. It is a little ridiculas to pull a permit for a ceiling fan install or adding a couple of receptacles. Usually the AHJ's are understanding and figure if you are licensed, you'll do the job up to code regardless.
 
This is a dicey topic

In Massachusetts if you perform any work for hire the State Law requires that notice be given within 5 days of commencment of work to the local inspector of wires.

This is not negotiable!
 
Around here the law requires permits for just about everything. Having said that, most contractors do not pull them for small jobs. Stuff like adding a few circuits or fixtures etc.
 
Lwa every where I think is goin to say "pull permits"
But WE never do on easy, quick in & out stuff.
Seriously, think about this from a common sense point of view....You replace a ceiling fan& call for an inspection, just what is the inspector goin to see? Do you think he's gettin on a ladder & pulling the canopy cover off & looking to see if you have a listed box? Get free king real about this.
There is good $$ in service calls. I can average 8 a day & my record is 13.
Stop being so anal about permits.
 
cpal said:
In Massachusetts if you perform any work for hire the State Law requires that notice be given within 5 days of commencment of work to the local inspector of wires.

This is not negotiable!
Click to expand...

Yes and the State regularly makes examples out of electricians who get caught without permits.

License suspensions and fines.
 
iwire said:
Yes and the State regularly makes examples out of electricians who get caught without permits.

License suspensions and fines.
Click to expand...
No Bob, The example they make is with people with no licenses!!


Texas too!
They caught me once! Tried to make it sound serious, I cried & screamed at them about not giving me a warning, after 20 years of dealing with them. I turned it back on them. Told them to F-off & I'll never pull another permit!
They wrote me a municipal citation for $800. I went to court to fight it & no one showed up. So no biggie!!!
Life is good!!
I'll only pull permits if there is a Construction/structural permit & everyone else is having too. My work is always to code regardless of permits or not.
 
77401 said:
No Bob, The example they make is with people with no licenses!!.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean here.

I wish they did work as hard catching the unlicensed doing 'our' work as much as they pursue the licensed.

I have never seen a list of unlicensed handymen who lost anything.

I see more and more trucks around here that have lettering saying they fix anything but have no license numbers on them.
 
This is what I mean...
TDLR Issues Twenty Cease And Desist Orders

AUSTIN -The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation (TDLR) has
issued 20 cease and desist orders against 18 unlicensed individuals to
prevent them from acting as licensed air conditioning or electrical
contractors. All actions are the result of investigations into illegal
activities.

TDLR encourages consumers to report any commercial contact with these
individuals or businesses so that the agency may take appropriate
action. Consumers may contact TDLR at 1-800-803-9202 or by email to TDLR
at complaints@license.state.tx.us.

Cease and Desist Orders

Air Conditioning

Pedro Torres
Combes
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Amador Espinoza
d/b/a AE Maintenance & Services
Los Fresno
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Gustavo Medina
Brownsville
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Oscar Resendez
d/b/a AAA Pronto Heating & Cooling
Hidalgo
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Dimas Dimas
San Benito
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Ruben Mendoza, Jr.
d/b/a Mendoza's A/C & Heating
Eagle Pass
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Juan Garcia
d/b/a Juan's Applicances
Brownsville
Date of issuance: August 9, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Ruben Mendoza, Sr.
d/b/a Four Seasons Wholesale Distributors
Eagle Pass
Date of issuance: August 9, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Gene Harris
Garland
Date of issuance: August 9, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Michael Schutt
Seagoville
Date of issuance: August 9, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Daniel Picazo
d/b/a Handee-Man,
Spring
Date of issuance: August 25, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license

Electrical

Carlos A. Garza
San Benito
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Arturo Ornales
Brownsville
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Victor Del Angel
Brownsville
Date of issuance: August 2, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Eli O. Salas
Harlingen
Date of issuance: August 9, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Raul Ornales
Brownsville
Date of issuance: August 22, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Jose E. Arroyo
Brownsville
Date of issuance: August 30, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Michael Schutt
Seagoville
Date of issuance: August 9, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Daniel Picazo
d/b/a Handee-Man
Spring
Date of issuance: August 25, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.

Pedro Sifuentes
d/b/a Sifuentes Builder and Remodeler
Houston
Date of issuance: August 22, 2006
Violation: Operating without a license.
 
I pull a permit WHENEVER it is required.
It covers the HO from denied HO ins. policy claims and keeps the inspectors happy ~ which makes them very easy to deal with.

The city I predominatley(sp?) work has some guidelines:

Do I Need A Construction Permit?
Below is a list of projects for which a permit is NOT required.
If your project does not appear on the list below, please call the Building Department above to see if you need a permit.

Electrical Permits
Replacement of any receptacle, switch or lighting fixture rated at 20 amps or less.
Replacement of receptacles where Ground fault receptacle is required, must be done with a permit.
Repairs to doorbells, communication systems and motor operated devices.
Communication wiring in single family residences.
Replacement of domestic dishwashers
Replacement of range hoods in singlefamily dwellings.

Fire Protection Permits
Replacement of smoke or heat detectors.
Installation of battery powered smoke detectors.
Click to expand...
 
77401 said:
This is what I mean...
TDLR Issues Twenty Cease And Desist Orders
Click to expand...
NJ does the same...BUT, they have discovered it is a cash cow...
cashcow.jpg

...primed for "milking".

From the last meeting on of the [NJ Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors]....July 12, 2006

Check in the amount of $100.00 received from [defendant] Unlicensed, as the seventh installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $2,500.00 for violation of N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9 and N.J.S.A. 56:8-1 et seq. Payments started November 29, 2005 and the balance due is $1,700.00.

Personal Money Order in the amount of $1,000.00 received from [defendant], Unlicensed, as the second installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $5,000.00 for violation of N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9. Payments started April 13, 2006 and the balance due is $3,000.00.
Click to expand...
NJ does not play around ~ licensed or not:

The Board reviewed an application for reinstatement received from [defendant], as he failed to renew his License #00000 for the 1997 to 2000; 2000 to 2003; 2003 to 2006 and 2006 to 2009 triennial renewal periods.
Motion made by Mr. Robert A. McCullough and seconded by Mr. Joseph F. Cantalupo, and unanimously passed, that a letter be sent to [defendant] advising him that he must take and pass the written examination in order to regain his license.



Check in the amount of $500.00 received from [defendant], License #00000, as the first installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $2,500.00 for violation of N.J.A.C. 13:31-3.5. Balance due is $2,000.00


Cashier?s Check in the amount of $2,500.00 received from [defendant], License #00000, as the first and final installment of a civil penalty in the amount of $2,500.00 for violation of N.J.S.A. 45:5A-9.
Click to expand...

The guy that has to retake the test must be REALLY po'ed!
 
I think if we understand why we have inspections, it may help some know the reason it is important to file for a permit and get an inspection, on all new wiring no matter how small, even one outlet.

The insurance companies rate different cities, and towns, on risk, and loss, this is the job of an insurance underwriter, they look at the fire protection a city may have, the type of structures in that city, and the enforcement of building codes.

Now when a homeowner insures their property, the insurer rates that property, if that homeowner makes any changes in the property, new furnace, additional wiring, room additions, they must follow the insurance contract, of which most define, that all new work, must compply with local codes, if anyone violates this clause, the homeowners insurance coverage could be lost, not a good thing to lose your insurance on the largest asset you may own, so when you install that one outlet, without a permit, your putting that owners largest asset on the line.

A lot of people go thru red lights, and never get a ticket, or never have an accident, and some go thru one red light, and never get to tell about it.
 
Celtic.

This last May or June, they sent all the county prosecutors for a class on the electrical laws, since then, as you said a gold mine, and it is being enforced, i took the truck to the post office, i was only gone for 10 minutes, when i came back, the police were outside ready to arrest my guys, they did not see the placard in the window, if fell behind the couch, so they are out there looking, one outlet, can take down a home, just as easy as 10 can, i can't believe, anyone in business, would risk everything, by not permitting a job.

Here in Jersey the weekend hackers, and non permit guys, are in for a suprise, they use to think they were safe, because the construction office was closed, and no one was working, wait until they have to explain to their wife, they have $5,000 plus attorney fees to pay.
 
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satcom said:
must compply with local codes, if anyone violates this clause, the homeowners insurance coverage could be lost, not a good thing to lose your insurance on the largest asset you may own, so when you install that one outlet.
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm. funny, (not that I'm laughing) as my Alllstate insurance rep just did a big remodel & new master bath & kitchen all without permits. But again everything met local codes for the installation & was done by licensed contractors.
Down here, asking for a licensed tradesman that speaks & understand English is asking for the moon. So that makes me an astronaut! & my E-250 is a lunar rover. LOL
 
It's not just electrical, that can put your insurance on the line, a little girl had a neck injury, from playing on a neighbors deck, turned out the deck had no permits, fly by night contractor job, neighbor sued for injury, insurance company had out, deck was built illegal, so it's not jus us under the gun.
 
Celtic.

He is from Uranus! they now call it Texas.

I think they are just getting started on Lic. regs, and enforcement down there, they have a ways top go, before they catch up with other states, Texas has a lot of area to cover, and it must be an almost impossible job to do.
 
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