Service Change

[Dennis Alwon]

Meter jumpers, you say? How does that work?

I use to take a piece of #4 copper and smash the ends flat and insert them in the slots where the meter would go. I have some real jumpers. I will post a picture in a while.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is the picture. The older ones I have used were basically a flat long piece of aluminum and had no handle like the one shown.

 

[charlie]

Check out page 14. :smile:

 

[jaylectricity]

Here is the picture. The older ones I have used were basically a flat long piece of aluminum and had no handle like the one shown.

Oh, OK. I've seen those before. So the old piece of SE comes out of the load side of the old meter and into the line side of the new meter? Then what, the POCO comes and removes that wire and runs the new service entrance wires to the line side terminals of the new meter?

They won't touch any of our service equipment on residential here. You leave the conductors up by the point of attachment.

 

[iwire]

i've been
barehanding up to 35kvdc @ 2 amp since the mid '70's, as i used to
work in high voltage capacitors, and by barehanded i mean exactly that,
standing on a dielectric mat, no gloves whatsoever. probably got
honestly 3 or 4 thousand hours doing that kind of work, since i was
19 years old. i know how to do it, and do it well, .

What would be the reason for having to spend 1 to 2 years working with these voltages? :-?

 

[ivsenroute]

This issue has been a longstanding problem in the industry due to the response time of the POCO. We can coordinate everything we need with the inspector but getting the POCO to disconnect at the UG transformer then come back the same day, even with a CI card at the ready seems to be like pulling teeth from a running lion.

As far as pulling the meter base and changing it live there is no way in heck I am going to ever plan on doing that no matter how much tape I have. Who knows if the last idiot nicked the insulation somewhere not visible.

The homeowner will have to wait and that is about it. Brief them in advance.

 

[Fulthrotl]

What would be the reason for having to spend 1 to 2 years working with these voltages? :-?

i was working in electrical manufacturing in 1975, doing small runs of
custom capacitors, for a company in santa fe springs, ca.

ratings on the caps were up to 35kvdc, and you hipot at 125% normally,
or 150% if mil-spec-105D was called for. so i was working at up to 55kvdc.
extensive work with megohmmeters, o-scopes, and high voltage test
racks.

i designed my own test fixtures, and safety devices, based on the tasks
at hand. using the tools i had developed, i was able to work barehanded,
so my manual dexterity wasn't compromised. i machined my own hot tongs
out of lexan, and epoxied shorting resistors inside them, so i could handle
charged capacitors while discharging them at the same time. made a foot
operated lexan shield to swing up between me and the product under test,
as they sometimes faulted in a dramatic fashion.

osha and occupational safety were virtually nonexistent. you figured out
what you had to do to remain safe, and did it.

i did it for 50 hours a week for about 2 years. no problems, no near misses,
and i learned a bunch about HV in the process. was building tesla coils in
my garage during that time, and learned about harmonics, and composite
AC.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Oh, OK. I've seen those before. So the old piece of SE comes out of the load side of the old meter and into the line side of the new meter? Then what, the POCO comes and removes that wire and runs the new service entrance wires to the line side terminals of the new meter?

That is correct, and if you are smart you will ask them (leave a note) to leave your se cable so you can reuse it.

 

[Power Tech]

Strange the different policies from one POCO to another. I live in an area shared by Edison and PG&E.

Edison will let you cut the overhead lines, the lock on the seal on the meter. If it has a lock they will unlock it - you pull th meter.

PG&E is the wors POCO in the nation. If you pull the meter in an emergency / That is meter tampering and they can dink your license and you will get a fine. If you cut the overhead lines / That is power tampering and a you well get a fine. If you jump the meter clips (like I have done dozens of times with every other POCO / That is power theft an that is a felony and they can have you arrested.

Terry

 

[boboelectric]

WE always do an off/ on,not hot.Money isn't that important.

 

[Power Tech]

WE always do an off/ on,not hot.Money isn't that important.

On a scale between on and ten. How important is it?

Terry

 

[220/221]

In AZ, the system works but could be better.

One POCO will only disconnect/reconnect on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Both need city clearance to reconnect. Both rely on a FAX from the city which can and has gotten misplaced a few times before.

Sometimes the lineman doesn't want to disconnect at the transformer (too much work I guess) and asks if I will work it hot. I wouldn't allow any of my guys to do it but occaisionally I will do it.

Pulling the old riser off is the more dangerous part because you don't really know the condition of the conductors. I put gloves on, have my helper stand back and yank it off.

I was going to say that putting it back together was safer because you can inspect the wires but now that I think about it, it aint anywhere close to safe. I don't think I'll do it any more.

Some times the riser remains in place. That is a little more safe.

 

[steelersman]

Went to change a service in So Cal. Got the permit, called the Edison service planner. He will send a man to unlock the meter. I tell him it's an underground feed. If he could disconnect at the xfmr ao hand hole, and reconnect the same day. He says he will need inspection and a power release to reconnect if he disconnects. He says it will be about 3 days to get the paperwork and generate a work order. I asked him what are my options? He says contractors usuly get a lot of tape or you can get a generator (ha ha). The public gets GFCI's, AFCI's.

This process needs to be streamlined so the customer is not out of power and the contractor is not forced to work hot. What do you guys do on underground services?

Terry

I just did one last week. It was same scenario. Underground riser. The POCO here will come out and kill the power and you have to arrange to have it inspected same day and POCO comes back out same day and reconnects when they see the approval sticker.

In my case the POCO wouldn't disconnect at the X-former because it would've dropped out other houses so he undid the line side of the meter for me and took off the meter enclosure and helped me install the new enclosure.

He stayed there for at least 2-3 hours as he said he had no other calls to make and as I was finishing up inside the house in the new panel he finally left and as my luck would have it as soon as he left the inspector shows up and passes it. So when I called POCO back to re-energize there had been a outage somewhere and so they didn't end up getting back to re-energize until 4-5 hours later.

If only he had waited around for 10 more minutes....

 

[steelersman]

Here is what I use to do.
I get my permit and make the inspection company and the power company aware of the situation. I can usually finish the install by noon and get the inspection done right away. The poco usually comes by the days end.

Here is what I now do.
I get the permit and start by pulling the meter. I then disconnect everything including the meter base. I swing the meter base off to the side and install everything new. I then take a piece of old SE cable and run it from the old meter to the new meter. I have meter jumpers that I bought to jump the terminals on the new meter. Once everything is connected and protected I install the old meter into the old can. The inspector comes and the poco can come in a day or so but the ho has power.

This is what I do for an overhead service as well. But for an underground you can't simply swing away the old meter can.

 

[ptonsparky]

Plan ahead. POCOs here are more than reasonable to work with. City inspectors need a scheduled time for inspection so connection can be made again the same day. State inspections can be days to months after work is done so State permit must be filed early enough for forwarding to POCO. After that just make the phone calls to POCO and they will work with us as needed. Some areas allow us to pull meter sockets on 120/240 then call for a reseal. We do not pull or insert 480v meters while energized. Just won't happen.

 

[steelersman]

Plan ahead. POCOs here are more than reasonable to work with. City inspectors need a scheduled time for inspection so connection can be made again the same day. State inspections can be days to months after work is done so State permit must be filed early enough for forwarding to POCO. After that just make the phone calls to POCO and they will work with us as needed. Some areas allow us to pull meter sockets on 120/240 then call for a reseal. We do not pull or insert 480v meters while energized. Just won't happen.

state permit? Never heard of that. No state permits here in the great state of Virginia. Just county.

 

[peter d]

It had a big underground service enterence, I could dance in there. I do not like doing that though. I have a HV background and know what I am comfortable with.

The problem with service conductors, particularly a nice fat 2/0 or 4/0 service lateral connected right to a pad mount, is that they can deliver huge amounts of fault current and no OCPD to boot. Should you short them out, at the best you will do some serious damage to yourself and/or the service equipment.

 

[TOOL_5150]

Strange the different policies from one POCO to another. I live in an area shared by Edison and PG&E.

Edison will let you cut the overhead lines, the lock on the seal on the meter. If it has a lock they will unlock it - you pull th meter.

PG&E is the wors POCO in the nation. If you pull the meter in an emergency / That is meter tampering and they can dink your license and you will get a fine. If you cut the overhead lines / That is power tampering and a you well get a fine. If you jump the meter clips (like I have done dozens of times with every other POCO / That is power theft an that is a felony and they can have you arrested.

Terry

In my area, PG&E guys have told me on more than 1 occasion to "not bother them for a disconnect / reconnect for an OH upgrade, Just cut it, replace it and temp it back up, then call the office to have new seals installed After a final inspection"

~Matt

 

[wireguru]

around here everyone sets the new service next to the old one, and uses the old can as a JB to splice the existing circuits. Most of the houses are stucco and have recessed 50a services from the 1950s. Makes it easy as you do the new work, get it inspected, call poco to come out and they replace the drop, then you make up the splices for the existing circuits. Only without power for an hour or two.

 

[peter d]

In my area, PG&E guys have told me on more than 1 occasion to "not bother them for a disconnect / reconnect for an OH upgrade, Just cut it, replace it and temp it back up, then call the office to have new seals installed After a final inspection"

Why do I never hear anything good about PG&E on this forum? Are they really that bad?