service conductor splice

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FREEBALL

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york pa usa
Im looking at a job where the underground service needs to be moved so a garage can be built beside the customers home. Met Ed said they would consider taps in the secondary underground, we were going to install a 200 amp meter at the garage and reefed house, then we decided it would be best to install a 320amp meter at garage and feed the house as a service which they agreed is acceptable, they said they would have to charge 700 dollars to feed the 320 meter because conductors have to be sized to the meter. The customer agreed, The total load is 108 amps with the add on garage, everything is gas. Anyway Id like to reuse the existing 3 wire service underground to the house from the new meter location. The length is approx. 130 ft from new meter to existing meter on house. The service conductors at the existing meter base will not be long enough to extend into the panel. Can I bond an enclosure there to the neutral since it is still service conductors, and no parallel feed back to meter? Id like to keep from having to trench an additional 100 feet and resupply with 4 wire from the panel as a feeder. That is my question. PS I looked into PVC enclosures for a pvc enclosure the size I need for the conduits entering would be an 18x18 and well carlon only makes a 24x24 at 370.00 so a metal enclosure is what I would need.

Thanx
Jeff
 
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I got lost in your post.

Are you asking if service conductors can be spliced in a metal enclosure and can said enclosure be bonded with the neutral/grounded conductor?

If so, then yes to both.
 
I apologize for the post length but yes the neutral will be bonded at the meter then run to house 100 ft to panel but will need to splice at house to make it into the panel. Thanx can you give a code ref I searched 230.40 and couldn't find anything that is close to the job
 
I got lost also. It sounded to me that he wants to use the existing feed from the old meter location to sub-feed the existing panel from a new panel being installed in the new garage addition. If that is the case then I would say no and would require a new 4-wire feeder to the existing panel from the new panel being installed. Not sure if that is what is being asked though.
 
FREEBALL said:
I apologize for the post length but yes the neutral will be bonded at the meter then run to house 100 ft to panel but will need to splice at house to make it into the panel. Thanx can you give a code ref I searched 230.40 and couldn't find anything that is close to the job
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230.33 Spliced Conductors.
Service conductors shall be
permitted to be spliced or tapped in accordance with
110.14, 300.5(E), 300.13, and 300.15.
 
I guess my question is not that I can splice, is bonding an issue since this will be a metal enclosure at the existing meter location. So the grounded conductor will be bonded at the new meter location, travel outside underground with the ungrounded conductors, up into a Jbox where the old meter base was, tapped into the existing service cable, and into the panel. And if allowed what size bonding jumper #2 or full size since it is still considered service the neutral now is 4/0


jumper said:
230.33 Spliced Conductors.
Service conductors shall be
permitted to be spliced or tapped in accordance with
110.14, 300.5(E), 300.13, and 300.15.
Click to expand...
 
If you haven't yet hit a service disconnecting means, you still have service conductors.

bonding jumpers need sized per 250.102(C)
 
Sounds like the service lateral ends at the garage -- he wants to use the previous service lateral which is now an existing 3 wire feeder to the house. There is no code I know of that says you cannot meter the feeder to your existing house if you want to own a meter. (no splicing or alteration needed). the NEC 250.32 allows existing feeders to remain ( no equipment Ground) in its exception. Feeders can be spliced for extending the circuit but it may come down to the AHJ if it is enough alteration to require the feeder upgrade. I would be curious if you changed out the existing meter base to a bypass type meter base would be adequate as a disconnecting means instead of a splice.
 
mwm1752 said:
Sounds like the service lateral ends at the garage -- he wants to use the previous service lateral which is now an existing 3 wire feeder to the house. There is no code I know of that says you cannot meter the feeder to your existing house if you want to own a meter. (no splicing or alteration needed). the NEC 250.32 allows existing feeders to remain ( no equipment Ground) in its exception. Feeders can be spliced for extending the circuit but it may come down to the AHJ if it is enough alteration to require the feeder upgrade. I would be curious if you changed out the existing meter base to a bypass type meter base would be adequate as a disconnecting means instead of a splice.
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If I understand correctly POCO is upgrading the lateral and it will stop at the meter. From there it is still service conductors to the house and separately to the new garage, as the meter is not a service disconnecting means. If it were a meter-main then you have service disconnecting means and load side conductors are feeders.
 
kwired said:
If I understand correctly POCO is upgrading the lateral and it will stop at the meter. From there it is still service conductors to the house and separately to the new garage, as the meter is not a service disconnecting means. If it were a meter-main then you have service disconnecting means and load side conductors are feeders.
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Never seen it done that way -- service to 320 meter -- tap to garage disconnect & tap to house disconnect -- kinda upsets the service disconnecting means being grouped together.
 
mwm1752 said:
Never seen it done that way -- service to 320 meter -- tap to garage disconnect & tap to house disconnect -- kinda upsets the service disconnecting means being grouped together.
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Nothing wrong with it if they are separate buildings and is done quite often.

OP says "so a garage can be built beside the customers home". Without further information I take that as meaning separate buildings.
 
kwired said:
Nothing wrong with it if they are separate buildings and is done quite often.

OP says "so a garage can be built beside the customers home". Without further information I take that as meaning separate buildings.
Click to expand...

I would agree, one meter serving services on multiple buildings is fine from an NEC standpoint. The OP would simply bond the meter enclosure and any other metallic items to the neutral in a compliant manner. One thing to note though is while it is compliant from a NEC stand point, many POCOs would have an issue with this due to their own rules as many want the service disconnect next to the meter for their own reasons.
 
well inspector did allow the design he wants a ground from the panel inside to the box outside for bonding, which I thought wasn't allowed since the ground/bond wasn't in the cable assembly, he said its service cable and the grounding conductor is bonded to the neutral in the panel, I thought the neutral should be bonded at the enclosure, and he said also there is no disconnect only an enclosure. So the service will work thanx for the input. I was confused since the service is underground so far to the entrance, but since its outside theres no issue. never did a service quite this way
 
FREEBALL said:
well inspector did allow the design he wants a ground from the panel inside to the box outside for bonding, which I thought wasn't allowed since the ground/bond wasn't in the cable assembly, he said its service cable and the grounding conductor is bonded to the neutral in the panel, I thought the neutral should be bonded at the enclosure, and he said also there is no disconnect only an enclosure. So the service will work thanx for the input. I was confused since the service is underground so far to the entrance, but since its outside theres no issue. never did a service quite this way
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All equipment on supply side of service disconnect needs bonded to the grounded conductor.

Doesn't matter if it is a junction box, gutter, meter socket, CT cabinet...


And meter sockets typically already have the grounded conductor lug(s) bonded to the cabinet so there is no need for extra bonding jumpers for that purpose.
 
kwired said:
All equipment on supply side of service disconnect needs bonded to the grounded conductor.

Doesn't matter if it is a junction box, gutter, meter socket, CT cabinet...
Click to expand...

I agree, this must be done.

And meter sockets typically already have the grounded conductor lug(s) bonded to the cabinet so there is no need for extra bonding jumpers for that purpose.
Click to expand...

We have to purchase meter sockets from a list of models the power company approves and all them will be bonded types.
 
kwired said:
Nothing wrong with it if they are separate buildings and is done quite often.

OP says "so a garage can be built beside the customers home". Without further information I take that as meaning separate buildings.
Click to expand...

That is 130' away certainly insinuates separate buildings
 
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