Service drop conductors

[ActionDave]

Mike, 90.2(B) is very clear about this yet you continue to ignore it.

Let me ask this. Do you also require the service drop to be sized per the NEC ampacity tables?

Hmmmm... No rebuttal. I think you have him cornered.

 

[ActionDave]

I read it and it says that

.... the customer is responsible to have the local AHJ inspect....

everything after the Service Point.

 

[kwired]

I agree. 90.2 is as clear as can be and was modified a couple of code cycles ago with some added words about Service Point to emphasize the limits of NEC.

:thumbsup:

Couldn't open the link but the thumbnail said "all customer owned equipment is subject to NEC" (or close to that anyway....I could not copy and paste from the thumbnail)

I don't know anybody that owns their service drop conductors.

And if they do own them they are likely on the customer side of the service point - then the NEC does apply to them. It is more common to see underground service conductors to be customer side of service point, but most places with overhead service the service point is at least at the point of attachment if not further yet downstream.

 

[iwire]

I was bored, you have been warned.


I think we need to start from scratch, lets start in article 100. When trying to understand, apply or enforce the NEC it is absolutely imperative that you speak the same language as the NEC. You must look for NEC provided definitions, do not go by your gut or what you think it should mean.


In this thread the definition and understanding of service point is critical.

The service point is the boarder between the NEC Premises Wiring and utility controlled conductors. The utilities generally must abide by the NESC. (National Electrical Safety Code.) Think of the service point as the boarder between USA and Canada, both sides have laws and rules but neithers rules apply across the boarder.

Service Point. The point of connection between the facilities
of the serving utility and the premises wiring.

Informational Note: The service point can be described as
the point of demarcation between where the serving utility
ends and the premises wiring begins. The serving utility
generally specifies the location of the service point based
on the conditions of service.

Now lets look at service drop and service lateral. Neither of these terms refer to NEC controlled premises wiring. Both of those terms refer to utility owned wiring on the utility's side of the service point.

The NEC rules do not apply to Service Drops or Service laterals.

Service Drop. The overhead conductors between the utility
electric supply system and the service point.

Service Lateral. The underground conductors between the
utility electric supply system and the service point.

Now lets look at overhead service conductors. These conductors would be customer owned, maintained, controlled and NEC applies to them.

Service Conductors, Overhead. The overhead conductors
between the service point and the first point of connection
to the service-entrance conductors at the building or other
structure.

Now that we are sure we know what service drops, service laterals overhead service conductors are lets look at the NECs scope.

90.2 Scope.

(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:

(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric
utility where such installations

a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated
metering, or

Notice they did not use the word service conductors, they specifically used the terms service drops and service laterals telling us they are talking about conductors on the utility side of the service point.


Furthermore, lets look at the code section the OP brought up.

230.24 Clearances. Overhead service conductors shall not
be readily accessible and shall comply with 230.24(A)
through (E) for services not over 1000 volts, nominal.

Notice in this case they use the term 'overhead service conductors' not 'service drops' that means the section is talking about conductors on the customers side of the service point therefore conductors, owned, maintained, controlled by the customer.

So in a typical overhead service the service point is at the weatherhead, that means the overhead conductors would be a service drop putting them outside the scope of the NEC and also not referenced by 230.24.

On the other hand, if the service point happened to be at the pole on the street then the overhead conductors would be service conductors, 230.24 would apply and the customer would be reponsible for correction.

Now all that said, keep in mind I am not saying that no rules apply to the OPs situation, only that it is not the NEC that applies. It is likely the NESC which I understand has similar clearances rules as the NEC however the power company would be the ones that would have to enforce it and / or correct it.

 

[John120/240]

I have a Service on a home that has service conductors coming from service pole over the top of a detached garage. Looking at 230.24(A)EX#2 it says u only have to be 3ft above roof if it has at least a 4/12 slope. just wanted to make sure i am reading this correctly.

Thanks

I was bored, you have been warned.








Now lets look at service drop and service lateral. Neither of these terms refer to NEC controlled premises wiring. Both of those terms refer to utility owned wiring on the utility's side of the service point.













Now all that said, keep in mind I am not saying that no rules apply to the OPs situation, only that it is not the NEC that applies. It is likely the NESC which I understand has similar clearances rules as the NEC however the power company would be the ones that would have to enforce it and / or correct it.

Bob, That was a mouthful. Thank You. Correct the NEC does not apply, so we have to follow PoCo standards. Ex: For sole support of the service drop 2" rigid is required here. Just like fart fans and smoke detectors are not covered by NEC but by other industry accepted standards that we have to follow.

 

[pkelectrical]

Mike, 90.2(B) is very clear about this yet you continue to ignore it.

Let me ask this. Do you also require the service drop to be sized per the NEC ampacity tables?

Dont mean to steal the thread but you mean that 230.24 doesnt apply to NEC if the service drop is utility controlled. Meaning the service point is on the house. I had inspectors fail me saying I need the 'attachment point' installed 18ft off the ground since the pole is across the street.

 

[kwired]

Dont mean to steal the thread but you mean that 230.24 doesnt apply to NEC if the service drop is utility controlled. Meaning the service point is on the house. I had inspectors fail me saying I need the 'attachment point' installed 18ft off the ground since the pole is across the street.

Correct 90.2 tells us that utility company operations typically are not covered by NEC. The definitions of service point, service drop, service lateral, overhead service conductors, underground service conductors, and maybe a few other definitions that were changed the last couple code cycles were an attempt of clarifying what is covered by NEC and what is covered by the utility. That doesn't mean there can't be local amendments in some places that change some of this but NEC basically cuts itself off at the service point.

The 18 foot height of an attachment point (if NEC applies) isn't exactly the rule either. If the overhead conductors cross a public road they must be 18 feet above the road, but depending on elevations of specific items you could have an attachment point on grade (though that isn't going to pass) and still have 18 feet over the road. Plus if the other end of the overhead conductors are over 18 feet that helps as well.

 

[iwire]

I had inspectors fail me saying I need the 'attachment point' installed 18ft off the ground since the pole is across the street.

To me the POA (Point of Attachment) is a bit of a gray area and which codes apply may come down to who has to install it.

I have not installed many POAs, almost all have been installed by the power company. I realize that may be different in different areas.

When I have installed a POA it has been on mast type services that I installed following a clear and detailed handout from the power company that had all the clearance rules from the power company spelled out.

 

[pkelectrical]

We install POA on the house to which POCO runs their service drop

I do see note in the POCO guide's that says: Service drop clearances above grade, alleys, driveways, and areas subject to truck use, shall be in accordance with NECS" so i guess we have to follow NEC when it comes to service drops even though NEC only talks above Overhead conductors clearances not service drops.

 

[GoldDigger]

NECS not NEC.

 

[iwire]

shall be in accordance with NECS"

I am pretty sure you mean the NESC (National Electrical Safety Code).

http://standards.ieee.org/about/nesc/

 

[kwired]

We install POA on the house to which POCO runs their service drop

I do see note in the POCO guide's that says: Service drop clearances above grade, alleys, driveways, and areas subject to truck use, shall be in accordance with NECS" so i guess we have to follow NEC when it comes to service drops even though NEC only talks above Overhead conductors clearances not service drops.

As Bob said you probably meant NESC. Regardless if on supply side of service point it is still outside of scope of NEC. Typically the AHJ only inspects what is covered by NEC. POCO certainly can refuse to connect anything that doesn't comply with their specifications as well, and most usually do not specify anything that would fail NEC - especially on load side of service point.

 

[GoldDigger]

And if an inspector points out to you in advance something that POCO will reject, he is doing you a favor.
Especially if he would have to reinspect after you made the change for POCO. He just cannot red tag you for that alone.