Service end box bus bar retrofit

Tainted

Tainted

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Engineer (PE)
We want to remove 4 sets of 4#500KCMILS (red wires shown in picture at one phase) and add 10 sets of 4#500KCMIL in the service end box. You can also see Con-Edison wires from the top.

We are not sure if the existing bus (with red wires) have the capacity needed for the load. How thick and wide should the bus be to carry 10 sets of 4#500KCMILS?

Does anybody know a company in New York that can retrofit adequate bus bars in the existing service end box to carry the load and 10 sets of 4#500KCMILS?

IMG_8903.JPEG
 
Sounds to me like you need an engineer to look closely at what your new load will be and determine if the existing switchgear and service are adequate for the massively increased load you want to change to. That would be the first thing to do.
 
petersonra said:
Sounds to me like you need an engineer to look closely at what your new load will be and determine if the existing switchgear and service are adequate for the massively increased load you want to change to. That would be the first thing to do.
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I am the engineer, I know the load (will need to feed new 3500A fuses at 208V 3-phase)and I sent load letter to utility and they said the existing service is adequate for the load. The only problem that I have is that I need to retrofit a bus into this service end box that can tap an additional 10 sets of 4#500KCMILS. This is means and methods and I need to find some contractor that can do this for me.
 
Is the equipment manufacturer still in business? They would be the ones to contact for upgrades. We have contracted Eaton and Square D to modify buss’s before.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Is the equipment manufacturer still in business? They would be the ones to contact for upgrades. We have contracted Eaton and Square D to modify buss’s before.
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There is no label or anything. This building is old but the service end box looks like it's in excellent condition.

Does Eaton or Square D modify buses foreign to their equipment? Which division do I contact from Eaton and Square D? Do you have their numbers?
 
Tainted said:
There is no label or anything. This building is old but the service end box looks like it's in excellent condition.

Does Eaton or Square D modify buses foreign to their equipment? Which division do I contact from Eaton and Square D? Do you have their numbers?
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The office handled that, I think they called service, if they don’t, they probably know of a sub contractor they use.
 
All City Switchboard Astoria, Electrotech in Long Island City, NY or Lincoln Electric Products in Union, NJ.
 
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infinity said:
All City Switchboard Astoria, Electrotech in Long Island City, NY or Lincoln Electric Products in Union, NJ.
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I tried Lincoln Electric but they said they don't do it. Waiting for All City Switchboard to respond but it's been a while not sure if I sent it to the right email, can you send me the rep's email? Haven't tried Electrotech.
 
Tainted said:
I tried Lincoln Electric but they said they don't do it. Waiting for All City Switchboard to respond but it's been a while not sure if I sent it to the right email, can you send me the rep's email? Haven't tried Electrotech.
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Are you the engineer for an electrical contractor? Typically for us the EE designed it and we as the electrical contractor figures out who we will contract with to do the design and the manufacture of the retrofit.

All City best to reach is by phone. (718) 956-7244

You can also try Benfield: https://www.benfieldelectric.com/benfield-control-systems
 
infinity said:
Are you the engineer for an electrical contractor? Typically for us the EE designed it and we as the electrical contractor figures out who we will contract with to do the design and the manufacture of the retrofit.

All City best to reach is by phone. (718) 956-7244

You can also try Benfield: https://www.benfieldelectric.com/benfield-control-systems
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I am the electrical engineer designing the plan. Specifically I am upgrading a service switch from 1200 amps to 4000 amps for additional load and would require additional wires in the service end box.

Do I as the electrical engineer have to design the bus dimensions for the retrofit? Do I have to specify the thickness and length of the bus for them to CNC machine the bus and install it? Or does the contractor do all of that if I tell them the ampacity that I need?

I will try your suggestions. Have you had a situation like mine before?
 
Tainted said:
Do I as the electrical engineer have to design the bus dimensions for the retrofit? Do I have to specify the thickness and length of the bus for them to CNC machine the bus and install it? Or does the contractor do all of that if I tell them the ampacity that I need?

I will try your suggestions. Have you had a situation like mine before?
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We have done retrofitting on existing equipment but I don't ever remember going from 1200 to 4000 amps. We would bring in our switchboard vendor and let them figure it out. They would measure and design accordingly. They would know what size bus is required and how to make it work.
 
infinity said:
We have done retrofitting on existing equipment but I don't ever remember going from 1200 to 4000 amps. We would bring in our switchboard vendor and let them figure it out. They would measure and design accordingly. They would know what size bus is required and how to make it work.
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Which one of the vendors helped you out? Lincoln electric doesn't do it, so I'm assuming All City Switchboard helped you out with that?
 
hillbilly1 said:

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That was there was there old slogan. My old employer used that line quite a bit to us.
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Ooooh... I thought you were talking about Delta Metal Products the old switchboard manufacturer of NY
 
ron said:
This is from the NYC Electrical Code Amendments to the 2008 NEC. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/ll39of2011_electrical_code.pdf


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Yea I know this section of code but usually the manufacturer just does these calculations. I guess for my particular situation the retrofit bus will need to be 700A/sq inch ventilated or 500A/sq inch if unventilated.

The only problem is finding some company that can just make me a custom bus bar to have the contractor install it.
 
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