Service end box bus bar retrofit

[electrofelon]

So just curious as i am not familiar with these things other than hearing the term on the forum here - seems to be NYC thing. What exactly is an "end box"? I mean I know its basically a transition from POCO to customer, but is there ever metering in there? is it customer supplied and owned? IS it like a bussed gutter?

 

[Tainted]

So just curious as i am not familiar with these things other than hearing the term on the forum here - seems to be NYC thing. What exactly is an "end box"? I mean I know its basically a transition from POCO to customer, but is there ever metering in there? is it customer supplied and owned? IS it like a bussed gutter?

There is no meter in the service end box, just a bus that connects Con-Edison cables with the building's cables. You can't just get any service end box, it needs to be in accordance with Con-Ed's spec. See this Con-Ed service end box spec:

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9073-B.pdf

Customer buys and supplies the box.

 

[ron]

Yea I know this section of code but usually the manufacturer just does these calculations. I guess for my particular situation the retrofit bus will need to be 700A/sq inch ventilated or 500A/sq inch if unventilated.

The only problem is finding some company that can just make me a custom bus bar to have the contractor install it.

The contractors have better access to folks like All City Switchboard Astoria, Electrotech in Long Island City, NY or Lincoln Electric Products. They will return their calls.

Your drawings will indicate to modify the service end box with bus adequate for the ampacity. They will need to include preparing the drawings and apply to what was the NYC Advisory Board for review. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_4000-01.pdf

 

[Tainted]

The contractors have better access to folks like All City Switchboard Astoria, Electrotech in Long Island City, NY or Lincoln Electric Products. They will return their calls.

Your drawings will indicate to modify the service end box with bus adequate for the ampacity. They will need to include preparing the drawings and apply to what was the NYC Advisory Board for review. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/rules/1_RCNY_4000-01.pdf

Yea it's hard for me to get some access and talk to someone with these switchboard companies sometimes especially All City.

I am at the beginning stage of making EPR drawings for this service modification for DOB review.

But I have a question: Does the EPR advisory board drawing need to show the size and dimension of the bus bar retrofit?

 

[rambojoe]

You should co-ordinate with the utility designer... the customer/g.c. may have already went that route and hit a wall of money and red tape... funny enough that was most of my first few years in the trade... we call them buss ducts- under very large buildings. Do a bit of research and open a line of comm with the poco.
They may make life easy or hard... if its their cables on the other side of this end box...

 

[electrofelon]

There is no meter in the service end box, just a bus that connects Con-Edison cables with the building's cables. You can't just get any service end box, it needs to be in accordance with Con-Ed's spec. See this Con-Ed service end box spec:

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9073-B.pdf

Customer buys and supplies the box.

Thanks. So can conductors ever come directly into a switchboard?

 

[Tainted]

Thanks. So can conductors ever come directly into a switchboard?

Yes. You can have a service end box section. They also make service end box section with CT compartment above or below it.

 

[electrofelon]

Yes. You can have a service end box section. They also make service end box section with CT compartment above or below it.

So basically you don't necessarily need a standalone end box, but you need a certain size dedicated enclosure/compartment to transition the conductors in? What about smaller services like 400, 600, 800 amp. Can a CT cabinet take the place of the end box or do you still need to end box?

 

[Tainted]

So basically you don't necessarily need a standalone end box, but you need a certain size dedicated enclosure/compartment to transition the conductors in? What about smaller services like 400, 600, 800 amp. Can a CT cabinet take the place of the end box or do you still need to end box?

Correct, the service end box is a dedicated compartment that can attach to any other service compartment (service switch or CT). And I believe you would still need a service end box for the mentioned services.

Another term we use for the service end box is "end line box" or "copper detail box"

For services requiring 1 set of incoming 4#500KCMIL then service end box spec EO-9525-B must be provided.

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9525-B.pdf

For services requiring 2 sets of incoming 4#500KCMIL then service end box spec EO-9072-B must be provided.

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9072-B.pdf

For services requiring 3 sets or more of incoming 4#500KCMIL then service end box spec EO-9073-B must be provided.

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9073-B.pdf

See also this on page 9:

https://www.navtechny.com/_files/ugd/902258_192f872613b64ad8bde9b2be78eabab6.pdf

 

[electrofelon]

Correct, the service end box is a dedicated compartment that can attach to any other service compartment (service switch or CT). And I believe you would still need a service end box for the mentioned services.

Another term we use for the service end box is "end line box" or "copper detail box"

For services requiring 1 set of incoming 4#500KCMIL then service end box spec EO-9525-B must be provided.

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9525-B.pdf

For services requiring 2 sets of incoming 4#500KCMIL then service end box spec EO-9072-B must be provided.

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9072-B.pdf

For services requiring 3 sets or more of incoming 4#500KCMIL then service end box spec EO-9073-B must be provided.

https://www.coned.com/-/media/files/coned/documents/es/specs/EO-9073-B.pdf

See also this on page 9:

https://www.navtechny.com/_files/ugd/902258_192f872613b64ad8bde9b2be78eabab6.pdf

thanks for the info. Sorry one more question: What are you and others typically using for these boxes? Are you using off the shelf products like cabinets or bussed gutters that meet the requirements, or are these specifically made by some of the aforementioned suppliers?

 

[Tainted]

thanks for the info. Sorry one more question: What are you and others typically using for these boxes? Are you using off the shelf products like cabinets or bussed gutters that meet the requirements, or are these specifically made by some of the aforementioned suppliers?

No worries you can ask any question, we're all here to help each other out.

For switchboards with service end box sections I use Siemens or you can use Eaton or Square D. New York reps for Siemens, Square D and Eaton products can provide them to you. For example, I design a online diagram and then send them to the rep, then they just give you a whole submittal with everything you need.

For standalone service end box, I use some local manufacturer of service end boxes. Navtech or Electrotech makes them and some other NYC manufacturer.

You can get it off the shelf, or if space is a constraint you can ask the local manufacture to design a custom one for you but it must meet the Con-Ed spec.

 

[infinity]

For 208 volt services end boxes are also used because the utility ungrounded conductors will have current limiters on them. They're visible in the photo in the OP and below:

 

[electrofelon]

For 208 volt services end boxes are also used because the utility ungrounded conductors will have current limiters on them.

And this is because much of the distribution is network type with high AFC?

 

[Tainted]

And this is because much of the distribution is network type with high AFC?

Not sure about that but I’ve seen AFC from Con-Ed’s distribution ranging between 40-130kA.