Service Grounding

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texie said:
If I may, let me use another example. Assume a 3R enclosure with a service raceway entering the top thru a factory optional bolt on hub. How would you connect that raceway directly to the neutral/grounded conductor? You can't and don't need to as it is indirectly connected to the neutral in a manner compliant with 250.92.

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Actually you can. Just install a lug on one of the bolts... and of course jumper to grounded conductor. :p

FWIW, doesn't any conductive material connected to the grounded conductor therefore become a grounded conductor itself? That is for example, once you bond the [conductive] enclosure, it essentially is a grounded conductor, just not an intentional circuit conductor. And if it is not a conductor, what would be the purpose of bonding it???
 
O.K.
After reading the 'other side" of the discussion, doing a bit of research, and discussions with some mentors, the ole goat is convinced the bonding jumper to the enclosure is Code compliant.
:D
 
Smart $ said:
FWIW, doesn't any conductive material connected to the grounded conductor therefore become a grounded conductor itself? That is for example, once you bond the [conductive] enclosure, it essentially is a grounded conductor, just not an intentional circuit conductor. And if it is not a conductor, what would be the purpose of bonding it???
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The design intent is to eliminate/minimise any continuous current on the enclosure, even though it is a 'neutral conductor'.
 
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Sahib said:
The design intent is to eliminate/minimise any continuous current on the enclosure, even though it is a 'neutral conductor'.
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That's quite debatable on the supply side of the main bonding jumper. While I'm in agreement that should be the intent, many do not. Little things like a bonding-type locknut being an acceptable means give credence to those that do not, as this method of bonding to the grounded conductor will result in grounded conductor current through service equipment enclosures... and it will also put current through metal conduits bonded to enclosures or the grounded conductor on both ends (no matter what method is used).
 
Sahib said:
The design intent is to eliminate/minimise any continuous current on the enclosure, even though it is a 'neutral conductor'.
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I would agree with that statement if we were prohibited from connecting a grounding electrode conductor to the service, using metal hardware to mount the service, hanging service enclosures on metal buildings and prohibited from using metal raceways between service enclosures. We're not.

I believe the point of SSBJs are to provide an effective ground fault current path.
 
Even though the enclosure may be considered as a 'neutral conductor' as it is connected to the neutral, it does not perform the function of the neutral as in PEN (Protective Earthed Neutral, which is both grounded and grounding conductor) practiced in some other parts of the world. Only a minimum of neutral current flows over the service enclosure and the rest through the neutral bar in the enclosure and back to the source as there is a segregation of grounded (neutral) and grounding (EGC) wires in the enclosure. In that way the design intent of minimum current flow over the enclosure is achieved without compromising George's
George Stolz said:
the point of SSBJs are to provide an effective ground fault current path.
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Sahib said:
Even though the enclosure may be considered as a 'neutral conductor' as it is connected to the neutral, it does not perform the function of the neutral as in PEN (Protective Earthed Neutral, which is both grounded and grounding conductor) practiced in some other parts of the world. Only a minimum of neutral current flows over the service enclosure and the rest through the neutral bar in the enclosure and back to the source as there is a segregation of grounded (neutral) and grounding (EGC) wires in the enclosure. In that way the design intent of minimum current flow over the enclosure is achieved without compromising George's
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Break any one of the green wires in George's set up 1, do the same in set up 2; what changes?
 
ActionDave said:
Break any one of the green wires in George's set up 1, do the same in set up 2; what changes?
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Sahib said:
Please let the cat out of the bag.
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ActionDave said:
It is not a trick question.

Electrically, what is the difference between the two?
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Sahib said:
I think it was answered by other members including you. My later posts are about the clarification of whether enclosures may be regarded as neutral conductors in which case what role they perform.
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Just so we are clear ........ you did not answer Action Dave's question because?
 
So can we use, say, a panelboard enclosure as an intentional grounded conductor or not? Say for example I have a service panelboard with "neutral bar" that has the service grounded conductor landed on it. This is bonded to the panelboard cabinet. The panelboard has a separate "ground bar" properly fastened to the panelboard cabinet and there is a branch circuit grounded conductor. For fun, say there is also a feeder neutral landed on it too. Code compliant? What about 210.5(A)? :D
 
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