service i seen

[electricalperson]

ok heres the scoop. another EC installed a 400 amp service at a house we had. it was inspected and passed a few months ago without any questions by the local inspector.

its an underground service, it has a 400 amp meter socket located about 75 feet away from the house. running from the meter socket to the house is 4 inch PVC with 600 XHHW AL conductors. the pvc goes directly into the house and goes into a 400 amp seimens transfer switch. from the transfer switch it goes into a 8x8 trough about and theres 2, 200 amp panels above the trough with a short piece of pvc on each panel and they tapped the 600 mcm's with 4/0 to feed the panels. 2 seperate sets of 4/0

the panels both have 200 amp main breakers in them

the main problem is theres no breakers or fuses or a disconnecting means located before the transfer switch.

the transfer switch does not contain a main breaker either.

the issue im having is i believe this is a violation of article 230.32

anybody have any additional input?

 

[ddubbs103]

Is the transfer switch for a generator?. If I am interpreting 230.71(A) correctly it says in the 08 handbook in the commentary that one set of service entrance conductors, either overhead or underground, is permitted to supply two to six service diconnecting means in lieu of a single main disconnect.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

It sounds like the transfer switch is not rated as a service disconnect. Due to the location of the Transfer switch, it should be rated as suitable to be a service disconnect.

 

[stickboy1375]

It sounds like the transfer switch is not rated as a service disconnect. Due to the location of the Transfer switch, it should be rated as suitable to be a service disconnect.

I agree. ...

 

[electricalperson]

It sounds like the transfer switch is not rated as a service disconnect. Due to the location of the Transfer switch, it should be rated as suitable to be a service disconnect.

i will check for that tommorw. i didnt notice anything on the front of it but i didnt really check that hard

 

[stickboy1375]

i will check for that tommorw. i didnt notice anything on the front of it but i didnt really check that hard

400 amp transfer switch sounds like ALOT of money, I would have installed a 100 amp switch with a generator panel, but thats just how I roll...

 

[electricalperson]

400 amp transfer switch sounds like ALOT of money, I would have installed a 100 amp switch with a generator panel, but thats just how I roll...

thats why were changing it to a smaller transfer switch and feeding a smaller sub panel off of that. they couldnt afford the generator for the entire house

 

[alfiesauce]

take the transfer switch out of the equation though and the rest of it sounds good.

 

[iwire]

the main problem is theres no breakers or fuses or a disconnecting means located before the transfer switch.

Not required if it is a service rated switch.

the transfer switch does not contain a main breaker either.

That is not required either.

It sounds to me like your OCP is "located immediately adjacent thereto" as per 230.91.

 

[mikeames]

400 amp transfer switch sounds like ALOT of money, I would have installed a 100 amp switch with a generator panel, but thats just how I roll...

I agree but it does offer max flexability without having to move circuits into another panel or use one of those generac panels that wire into the existing panel. I considered putting a 400 in for myself for flexability. I dont have a large generator either.

 

[augie47]

Not required if it is a service rated switch.
.

Curious. Have you ever seen a service rated transfer switch without a breaker ?

That is not required either.

It sounds to me like your OCP is "located immediately adjacent thereto" as per 230.91.

would 230.82 not prohibit a non-service rated swich ahead of the service disconnects ?

 

[donselectric]

i would assume there is a breaker at the meter.....yes??

 

[donselectric]

never mind i re read it...see what happens when assuming.....:roll:
there needs to be a service rating or disco cant use the meter for it....

 

[electricalperson]

Not required if it is a service rated switch.



That is not required either.

It sounds to me like your OCP is "located immediately adjacent thereto" as per 230.91.

only problem is that im not sure if the equipment is service rated. its supposed to say it but i didnt find anything that said. next time im there ill search again for it. im going to check seimens website for a 400 amp, 120/240 single phase transferswitch and see if the one is on there

 

[electricalperson]

ok men heres the transfer switch. its a seimens x type 120/240 volt 400 amp transfer switch http://www2.sea.siemens.com/NR/rdon...8-B325AE0FDF29/0/x_type_transfer_switches.pdf

i cant see where it says service rated

 

[iwire]

ok men heres the transfer switch. its a seimens x type 120/240 volt 400 amp transfer switch http://www2.sea.siemens.com/NR/rdon...8-B325AE0FDF29/0/x_type_transfer_switches.pdf

i cant see where it says service rated

Its not, one of the requirements to be service rated is externally operable disconnect switches for both sources of power.

 

[electricalperson]

Its not, one of the requirements to be service rated is externally operable disconnect switches for both sources of power.

so do we agree that the installation is illegal?

 

[B4T]

another option..

another option..

since the transfer switch is already installed, why not get a Guardian 20k generator to supply the house. Installed it would be around $5000.00, not counting gas connection. I don't know if that transfer switch would work automatically or you would have to use manual operation

 

[electricalperson]

since the transfer switch is already installed, why not get a Guardian 20k generator to supply the house. Installed it would be around $5000.00, not counting gas connection. I don't know if that transfer switch would work automatically or you would have to use manual operation

a 20 kw generator would be too small for that house. theres a lot of stuff there. tehre adding a bowling alley and a pool house too

 

[LarryFine]

While it may be too late for the OP'er, my favorite way is to have one panel supplied through the ATS, and divide loads between on-genny and off-genny by which panel they land in.