Service neutral bonding location

[jap]

LOL! Really?
The GEC bonds directly to the grounding electrode system and thereby establishes a low impedance (fault) path back to the transformer. This is exactly what we were talking about.
In other words it serves to mitigate this: NEC Article250.4(A)(1) “Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.”

I don't know how I can make it any simpler. If you don't understand by now you probably never will....

No we were not talking about lightning strikes until it came into play around post 18 somehow.

Regardless, we do not install a GEC to create a low impedence path for lightning to get back TO our electrical equipment, we install a GEC, bonding grid and electrode systems to divert a lightning strike AWAY from our electrical equipment.

JAP>

 

[jap]

And, If you don't understand that by now, you probably never will.

JAP>

 

[packersparky]

LOL! Really?
The GEC bonds directly to the grounding electrode system and thereby establishes a low impedance (fault) path back to the transformer. This is exactly what we were talking about.
In other words it serves to mitigate this: NEC Article250.4(A)(1) “Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.”

I don't know how I can make it any simpler. If you don't understand by now you probably never will....

"The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path."

250.4(A)(5)
(4) Path for Fault Current. Electrical equipment, wiring, and
other electrically conductive material likely to become energized
shall be installed in a manner that creates a lowimpedance
circuit from any point on the wiring system to the
electrical supply source to facilitate the operation of overcurrent
devices should a second ground fault from a different
phase occur on the wiring system. The earth shall not be
considered as an effective fault-current path.

 

[kwired]

Where does it come out at?

If a strike occurs in Colorado on a stormy day, does it come back up out of the ground in China and jump back up into the sky on a perfectly beautiful day ?

JAP>

And then the cycle is completed when it strikes the ground again in China and comes back up out of the ground in Colorado

Oooh, gotta disagree with that! A charge of one polarity accumulates in the clouds ( I think it's positive, but Google it yourself.) A charge of the opposite polarity accumulates in the ground. Eventually the potential difference is so high that the atmosphere ionizes creating a conductive path between the two opposite charges, thereby equalizing the potential difference. Current does not need to flow any farther than that. It's merely a matter of positive charges meeting negative charges to reach equilibrium. And this has nothing to do with returning ground fault current to a transformer XO.

Pretty sure can be either charge. Cloud to cloud lightning strikes have already been mentioned - they would have to be opposite charges or would never occur. Also there is cloud to ground as well as ground to cloud discharges.

It’s all about resistances. For example take a simple 2-wire 24VDC circuit with a 10A load. Add 3 resistors in parallel-one at 100 Ohms one at 10 Ohms and one at 1 Ohm.
Where would most of the current flow on this circuit? Across the 1 Ohm resistor of course - and the least amount would flow across the 100 Ohm.
It’s the same thing with a ground fault or lightning strike.
The path will go across ALL varying resistances however most of the current will flow to the least resistance “source” similar to a ground fault on an EGC - we know ground fault always flows back to the source - which is the transformer.

Now let’s say you’re waking in a large open field and lightning suddenly hits the earth. The current will travel horizontally through the earth toward all resistances - trees, posts, etc (like the example above with resistors). Now what happens?
Unless you are wearing shoes with 3 inch thick rubber soles some of the current will likely enter your foot, travel through your body and exit your other foot once it hits the ground. Unfortunately you’d probably be dead at this point.
This is why LPI-175 states you should kneel down on the tips of toes if suddenly you find yourself caught in a lightning storm and no cover


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It is traveling through earth (and other objects that happen to get in the way so to speak) seeking opposite polarity - once charges are equalized or voltage is lowered enough that the path can no longer conduct enough current to keep it going - it is over. There may still be voltage between items but not enough to sustain arc anymore.

Everyone knows how lightning acts From clouds to earth - positive to negative charges equalizing.
But please back up your claim ....”once it hits the earth it is not seeking a tree a transformer or anything else”.
Are you another one who thinks it dissipates into the earth?


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It is dissipating into an object (that may have other objects with varying continuity levels embedded into it that may alter the current path because of changes in resistance) that has opposite polarity.

 

[Dale001289]

And then the cycle is completed when it strikes the ground again in China and comes back up out of the ground in Colorado


Pretty sure can be either charge. Cloud to cloud lightning strikes have already been mentioned - they would have to be opposite charges or would never occur. Also there is cloud to ground as well as ground to cloud discharges.

It is traveling through earth (and other objects that happen to get in the way so to speak) seeking opposite polarity - once charges are equalized or voltage is lowered enough that the path can no longer conduct enough current to keep it going - it is over. There may still be voltage between items but not enough to sustain arc anymore.


It is dissipating into an object (that may have other objects with varying continuity levels embedded into it that may alter the current path because of changes in resistance) that has opposite polarity.

I don't have an issue with anything you've stated except if lightning were to strike China, it would probably complete the cycle in Houston rather than Colorado due to lower ohmic levels.:lol:

One further note from NFPA 780, Standard for Installation of Lightning ProtectionSystems:
B.1.1 “The fundamental principal in the protection of life and property against lightning is to provide a means by which a lightning discharge can enter or leave the earth without resulting in damage or loss. A low-impedance path that the discharge will follow in preference to all alternative high-impedance paths offered by building materials such as wood, brick, tile, stone or concrete should be offered”…
this if for all those out there who STILL don't believe lightning came move upward out of the ground.

 

[jap]

I don't have an issue with anything you've stated except if lightning were to strike China, it would probably complete the cycle in Houston rather than Colorado due to lower ohmic levels.:lol:

One further note from NFPA 780, Standard for Installation of Lightning ProtectionSystems:
B.1.1 “The fundamental principal in the protection of life and property against lightning is to provide a means by which a lightning discharge can enter or leave the earth without resulting in damage or loss. A low-impedance path that the discharge will follow in preference to all alternative high-impedance paths offered by building materials such as wood, brick, tile, stone or concrete should be offered”…
this if for all those out there who STILL don't believe lightning came move upward out of the ground.

Nobody ever implied that lightning could not move upwards out of the ground.

Only that it has nothing to do with an XO terminal on a transformer to extinguish it like you suggested.

JAP>

 

[Dale001289]

Nobody ever implied that lightning could not move upwards out of the ground.

Only that it has nothing to do with an XO terminal on a transformer to extinguish it like you suggested.

JAP>

My final comment to the OP - don't ever let an inspector convince to run a GEC 200 feet when you have building steel sitting right next to your disconnect. Regardless of what anyone says, you want to keep the impedance low on the GEC - for multiple reasons.

Adios a todos, ha sido un placer!

 

[jap]

My final comment to the OP - don't ever let an inspector convince to run a GEC 200 feet when you have building steel sitting right next to your disconnect. Regardless of what anyone says, you want to keep the impedance low on the GEC - for multiple reasons.

Adios a todos, ha sido un placer!

Post #5 cleared up that the OP may have been confused.

The AHJ was talking about an EGC not a GEC which allows him to retain his title of "Inspector" without the need to join this forum for advice where some still don't know what the difference is.


JAP>