Service or Branch Feeder? you make the call...

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360Youth said:
I would agree. My understanding that anything before the first disconnecting means is service, anything inbetween OCPs means is considered a feeder.
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Allow me to high light.

Service. The conductors and equipment for delivering electric energy from the serving utility to the wiring system of the premises served.
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Anything after that is a what???:smile:
 
emahler said:
yes. it's open to interpretation whether they are really 2 buildings or one. They share a common wall and have a common fire alarm and sprinkler system.
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That would of been nice to know in the original post. But, either way there is

a problem. If it is one building why did it have two services ? If it is two buildings

why are two services serving one of them ? On the prints, are they labeled

as 'building A' and 'building B' ?

The FA and the sprinkler system have no bearing on the NEC.
 
chris kennedy said:
Allow me to high light.


Anything after that is a what???:smile:
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I had an off the record conversation with the engineer assigned to monitor this project, and after hounding him for why they would suddenly require a disconnect (at my expense), when they didn't require one on their original plan, he admitted that I upset some of the higher ups that designed this project. He then gave me their reasoning that initially it was a service under 230, but due to the reroute it's a branch feeder under 225.

I told him to look up the definition of service (as Chris posted) and to look at 230.3....

at that point we both laughed and he just shrugged his shoulders....

btw - no disconnect is required for us as per 225.32 exception 1....
 
benaround said:
That would of been nice to know in the original post. But, either way there is

a problem. If it is one building why did it have two services ? If it is two buildings

why are two services serving one of them ? On the prints, are they labeled

as 'building A' and 'building B' ?

The FA and the sprinkler system have no bearing on the NEC.
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The FA and sprinkler have more to do with whether its one building or 2...

but the original question was about whether it was a branch feeder or service feeder...the information was irrelevant.
 
chris kennedy said:
Allow me to high light.


Anything after that is a what???:smile:
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I would still call it a feeder. If a house has a detatched garage we call any wire powering it a feeder and not a service, correct? But there is quite a bit of loose interpretive information in this instance.
 
360Youth said:
I would still call it a feeder. If a house has a detatched garage we call any wire powering it a feeder and not a service, correct? But there is quite a bit of loose interpretive information in this instance.
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they are both feeders...the question is whether it's a branch feeder or service feeder...i agree with chris...
 
emahler said:
The FA and sprinkler have more to do with whether its one building or 2...

but the original question was about whether it was a branch feeder or service feeder...the information was irrelevant.
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OK, So you ended up with 1 building with 2 services, still not compliant.
 
benaround said:
OK, So you ended up with 1 building with 2 services, still not compliant.
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read 230...it's compliant under the exceptions...in this case, specifically 230.2(A)(B)(D)
 
benaround said:
OK, So you ended up with 1 building with 2 services, still not compliant.
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Lets try this. IMO what the OP described is a feeder.

Feeder. All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device.
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emahler said:
read 230...it's compliant under the exceptions...in this case, specifically 230.2(A)(B)(D)
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I've read 230.2 which one are you using ?

A. Special Conditions ?

B. Special Occupancies ?

D. Different Characteristics ?

I don't see it in any of these.
 
benaround said:
I've read 230.2 which one are you using ?

A. Special Conditions ?

B. Special Occupancies ?

D. Different Characteristics ?

I don't see it in any of these.
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in this particular case it fits 2 of the 3, my bad...230.2(B)(1) and 230.2(D)

but that, quite frankly is not the point...there really is no argument with the engineers or the AHJ regarding this point....

it revolves around whether it's a service or a feeder....not whether 2 services are allowed...
 
360Youth said:
What is a "service feeder"?
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Is it this?


Service Feeder. The conductors and equipment for delivering electric energy from the serving utility to the wiring system of the premises served.All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device.
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360Youth said:
My '08 has a Service definition and a Feeder definition, but no Service Feeder definition. :confused:
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I'm guilty of putting the two together. I just made that up. I'm sorry.
 
It is NOT a service because it does not meet the definition of a service under Article 100. Therefore it is covered by Article 225, not Article 230. I doubt that this feeder meets Article 225.30(A) and you would need to get special permission as described in Article 225.30(B). Two sources at the same voltage to a single building is generally prohibited by the code although I see it broken in industrial situations all the time.
 
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