Service Question

B

blueheels2

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh, NC
Occupation
Electrical contractor
I’m upgrading a service from 200 to 320/400 amp.

We are currently under the 2017 for single family dwelling so I’m not required to have exterior disconnects.
Room is tight so I was going to do away with exterior disconnects, but inspector said in this jurisdiction they adhere to to the 5’ rule or 2 stud bay rule unprotected conductors. Which caused me to send him an email about my plan which he says is a cod violation so I will lay it out for you. Please tell me the code if it’s wrong.

I was going to mount the 320 meter outside nipple over about 12” in 2.5” into an exterior jbox slash trough (using this instead of 3” LB) pulling both sets of feeders in this 2.5”.

From the back of the exterior box I was going 16” into a 2’ x 2’ x 8” jbox and then I was going to leave there with 2- 2” going to the 200 amp main breaker panels.

Inspector says I can’t (or he doesn’t think I can ) leave the 320!meter with both sets of wires in the same conduit.
You guys see a problem with that?
 

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As you can see not a lot of room outside so I don’t want to do disconnects. I can put one of those Ronk meter mains with the 2-200 amp breakers but even in that scenario I’d like to join the 2 feeders into 1 conduit and hit the j-box on the inside and then branch out to the panels.
 
Inspector couldn’t find the code but thought that combining both load wires off the meter socket into 1 conduit then j/box was a code violation of some sort. I asked what code and he couldn’t find it.

I mentioned this is just like a wire way where the separate meters or disconnects can splice on to the service wires. He didn’t like it.

I’ve scheduled a meeting for tomorrow to discuss, but I really couldn’t think of any reason why combining those 2 service conductors in 1 conduit would be a problem.
 
For NEC language all the conductors ahead of the main OCPD would be some form of service conductors. I think you are saying you have two meters and you are bringing them both inside? Or are you trying to put 1 meter and 2 parallel runs in one conduit? Or are you trying to run service conductors in the same conduit as feeder conductors (those on the load end of a OCPD).
 
I wouldn't see an issue with both sets of Service Conductors sharing the same raceway, but, you are dealing with Service Conductors so he's probably referring to the Service Disconnect needing to be at or near the closest point of entry.

Each jurisdiction generally has there own limits on what that length can be.


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This is one 320 amp meter and I’m combining the 2 load wires (4 hots, 2 neutrals into one conduit, nippling to an exterior jbox, then nippling to interior jbox and then splitting up to the 2 main breaker panels below.

That’s what started all of this is I called and they said they really didn’t want more than 5’ of service conductors (unprotected ) inside the home. Distance to first panel is about 4.5’ for the conductors and the second is about 5.5’ .

But his big problem was the 2 service conductors in the same conduit. But it’s not separate services. This is 1 meter/service feeding 2 panels through 1 conduit 2 j boxes and then the panels.
 
Elect117 said:
For NEC language all the conductors ahead of the main OCPD would be some form of service conductors. I think you are saying you have two meters and you are bringing them both inside? Or are you trying to put 1 meter and 2 parallel runs in one conduit? Or are you trying to run service conductors in the same conduit as feeder conductors (those on the load end of a OCPD).
Click to expand...
I typed out an explanation below but it’s 1 meter 2 parallel runs to 2 200 amp main breaker panels. If the wires are sized and seated I don’t see the problem. Maybe if it was separate meters I was joining…
 
Elect117 said:
For NEC language all the conductors ahead of the main OCPD would be some form of service conductors. I think you are saying you have two meters and you are bringing them both inside? Or are you trying to put 1 meter and 2 parallel runs in one conduit? Or are you trying to run service conductors in the same conduit as feeder conductors (those on the load end of a OCPD).
Click to expand...
400A (320A) meter sockets have dual lugs so one set of SE conductors from each lug to feed two 200A panels.
 
blueheels2 said:
But his big problem was the 2 service conductors in the same conduit. But it’s not separate services. This is 1 meter/service feeding 2 panels through 1 conduit 2 j boxes and then the panels.
Click to expand...
I bet he has the rule about SE conductors not having other conductors in the same raceway. But you have SE conductors from the same service in the raceway. I don't think he will find a code rule for that.
Be nice and tell him he needs to show you the violation.
 
Little Bill said:
I bet he has the rule about SE conductors not having other conductors in the same raceway. But you have SE conductors from the same service in the raceway. I don't think he will find a code rule for that.
Be nice and tell him he needs to show you the violation.
Click to expand...
Yeah I asked why and he couldn’t find the violation. I asked him if he would pass and he said as it was he wouldn’t pass any of it. I think I pissed him off by accident.
But he explained I can request a site visit and I can discuss this with inspector on site so I scheduled that.

But I just wanted to know if anyone could see a problem with the plan before they come out.
 
I don't see a problem with what you're doing at all. Most inspectors around here cite the "one stick of pipe rule" meaning the unprotected SE conductors cannot penetrate the building more than 10' although the code does not specify it. It's just a general rule.

Just to satisfy this inspector could you come out of the meter socket twice with 2 2" pipes one to each panel?
 
You could run a full size conductor off the meter and then tap off of it in the J box to each panel, or you could run two sets of separate conductors if the meter has dual lugs or terminals rated for 2 conductors (and I think almost all 320/400A meters do). Only issue I see is derating of the 4 conductors in a raceway, but the run is short so even that isn't an issue.
 
I do see a problem with the HVAC line coming through the line above the panel on the right. That may violate the "no foreign systems" rule although that small pipe is a rather trivial intrusion.
 
suemarkp said:
I do see a problem with the HVAC line coming through the line above the panel on the right. That may violate the "no foreign systems" rule although that small pipe is a rather trivial intrusion.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m not sure how it passed in the first place. There is HVAC ductwork filling the entire space from floor to panel bottom. But it’s all original work so I shouldn’t be required to change it. Same with the line set.
 
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