Service rated automatic transfer switch
- Thread starter nizak
- Start date
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Yes.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
There is no such thing as an "emergency disconnect." In no emergency does the response require human intervention. Do you mean the required service disconnecting means? If so, I believe the answer is yes.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Charlie,
I think the OP is referring to 230.85. Probably not something you deal with in your world.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
Yes.
The Generac ones I install even come with the label already on it.
Heres the one I’m currently installing.
The Generac ones I install even come with the label already on it.
Heres the one I’m currently installing.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Got one of those going in right now.Yes.
The Generac ones I install even come with the label already on it.
Heres the one I’m currently installing.
View attachment 2569972
They let the Electric that close to the gas meter and regulator? Here, even if existing they would require it to be moved. Even the dedicated space requirement is violated.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
I’ve never been made to move an existing service, when installing a generator. Thats crazy. Cant believe they make you do that.
Must seriously increase the cost of those installs I guess.
Are there circuits being fed from the meter combo that are not on the ATS ??Yes.
The Generac ones I install even come with the label already on it.
Heres the one I’m currently installing.
View attachment 2569972
If so, it would seem the ATS could not serve as the "emergency disconnect"
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
No I run the entire system over to the ATS.
Main panel then becomes a sub.
Main panel then becomes a sub.
It was an assumption on my part seeing the cables emerging form the meter combo,.No I run the entire system over to the ATS.
Main panel then becomes a sub.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
That sign is missing the word, "not" before service. I think it is supposed to say "Emergency disconnect, not service disconnect" in order to be used as the EM disconnect.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
That is the wording for when it is used as both the service disconnect and emergency disconnect. Also I note that is a meter/main in the photo and as such it must be the service disco and the emergency disco. There needs to be 4 wire from the meter/main to the ATS and remove the MBJ in the ATS.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Since Seven-Delta-FortyOne is in CA, which uses the 2020 NEC, 230.85 does not have the stupid limitation on SOUSE equipment. So if the one-line is service conductors -- meter main -- ATS -- all house loads, that means there are two options:
(1) Label the meter main "Emergency Disconnect, Not Service Equipment", run 3 service conductors from there to the ATS, and label the ATS "Service Disconnect".
(2) Label the meter main "Emergency Disconnect, Service Disconnect," run 4 feeder conductors from there to the ATS.
Cheers, Wayne
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Technically the transferswitch in that situation, is not the service disconnect, it remains over at the meter, as that looks like a meter main. Probably could still call it the emergency disconnect though. The panel inside would still be a sub.No I run the entire system over to the ATS.
Main panel then becomes a sub.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Yeah, I think those are the GEC’s, the one going into the wall is probably for the cold water, the other one looks like it’s has a crimp on it further down. But if it was one like you were thinking, with sub breakers, you would be correct.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Smart guy that you are, you noted what I was getting at with the diffrence between the 2020 and the 2023. It seems to me that the meter/main has to be the emergency disco as the load wires appear to enter the house.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Ah, your observation from the photo is that there are no visible conduits between the meter main and the ATS, so the conductors between them must be inside the house. Then I agree, the meter main has to be the service disconnect.
Cheers, Wayne
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
I have unintentionally created confusion.
That is not a completed installation. I just put the ATS up yesterday, and I’m waiting on a poco shutoff to finish it. There will be two flex conduits between the ATS and the meter/main.
Also, on some of these installs, like this one, I have to come off the supply side, not the load side. No possible way to do a load side transfer.
I come out of the meter side with 3 conductors, pull the neutral off the lug and extend it over to the ATS, where the new N-G bond is, (the ATS is SE-rated), and refeed the panel with 4 conductors.
I install an isolated neutral bar in the original panel, and it now becomes a sub.
I know that opens up the Pandora’s box of whether or not that constitutes modification of listed equipment, but like I have said before, I do a lot of these this way, I draw it and submit it to the county, they approve it, the inspector signs off, and there is no danger or harm possible with the installation, so…….
That is not a completed installation. I just put the ATS up yesterday, and I’m waiting on a poco shutoff to finish it. There will be two flex conduits between the ATS and the meter/main.
Also, on some of these installs, like this one, I have to come off the supply side, not the load side. No possible way to do a load side transfer.
I come out of the meter side with 3 conductors, pull the neutral off the lug and extend it over to the ATS, where the new N-G bond is, (the ATS is SE-rated), and refeed the panel with 4 conductors.
I install an isolated neutral bar in the original panel, and it now becomes a sub.
I know that opens up the Pandora’s box of whether or not that constitutes modification of listed equipment, but like I have said before, I do a lot of these this way, I draw it and submit it to the county, they approve it, the inspector signs off, and there is no danger or harm possible with the installation, so…….
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
So doing it that way, I believe that the ATS is now the main disconnect, and the emergency disconnect. That’s how they are drawn up.
Also, as far as coming off the load side, I don’t know for a fact, as I’m not as fluent in the Code as many (most) of the members here are, but it seems that 230.83(5) might specifically allow this setup.
Also, as far as coming off the load side, I don’t know for a fact, as I’m not as fluent in the Code as many (most) of the members here are, but it seems that 230.83(5) might specifically allow this setup.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Well, they may aprove it, but it is not compliant to modify the meter/main. Can't you just simply take down the meter/main and just put a standard meter socket in its place?