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Service upgrade

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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
Occupation
Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
Doing a residential service upgrade in CA under the CEC. See photos attached. Inspector said according to CEC 230.7 the service entrance conductors we have going from the load side of the meter base into the panel main breaker need to have a barrier around the CO doctors inside the panel. I told him that the panel isn't a raceway. Can someone help me to know if I am correct and that I can run the service entrance conductors inside the main panel and land them on the main breaker without a barrier? Or can I not do that, if so what's the code section.

Thanks ahead of time.

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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
Occupation
Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
He said the panel is a raceway according to the definition of a raceway in the code.

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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
Occupation
Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
Sorry, picture attached here
4c0f2bf97d78e6ec25f1f2533406562b.jpg


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AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
that's the dumbest thing. so every panel would require that barrier how else would you get them to a main breaker.
Definition of race way in 2023 i
s" An enclosed channel designed EXPRESSLY for holding wires, cables, or busbars with additional function as permitted in this code:

only thing I see him trying to tie it in is Busbars. but look at definition of busbars I don't feel this application applies to that, as far as the equipment that is mentioned under busbars.

busbars as I think this is referencing is ones you would mount in a gutter.
 
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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
Occupation
Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
That's what I said. I think he is so used to seeing meter main combo panels that doing something different from that threw him off. He is asking for an engineers letter because what I did was "unsafe".

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infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
electro7 said:
That's what I said. I think he is so used to seeing meter main combo panels that doing something different from that threw him off. He is asking for an engineers letter because what I did was "unsafe".

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Click to expand...
If it's unsafe maybe he can come up with an appropriate code section that was violated. I wouldn't hold my breath, someone who doesn't know the difference between a cabinet and a raceway probably won't change his mind.
 
J

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
electro7 said:
Doing a residential service upgrade in CA under the CEC. See photos attached. Inspector said according to CEC 230.7 the service entrance conductors we have going from the load side of the meter base into the panel main breaker need to have a barrier around the CO doctors inside the panel.
Click to expand...

Is your inspector from Canada?
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
IMO, the AHJ wants the unprotected service conductors in a channel of some kind (approved method) not a cardboard.

To OP, is there a reason you didn't install a meter main?
 
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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
Occupation
Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
Ponchik said:
IMO, the AHJ wants the unprotected service conductors in a channel of some kind (approved method) not a cardboard.

To OP, is there a reason you didn't install a meter main?
Click to expand...
Yeah the service conductors were coming up on the righthand side and I was unable to find a meter main combo, readily accessible, with underground feed right hand side and surface mount.

Is there a code that says I can't run the service entrance conductors through a nipple and inside the main panel to the main breaker?

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R

rc/retired

Senior Member
Location
Bellvue, Colorado
Occupation
Master Electrician/Inspector retired
electro7 said:
Is there a code that says I can't run the service entrance conductors through a nipple and inside the main panel to the main breaker?

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Nothing in the NEC prohibits your installation. I've done it many times and approved the installation many times.
Definitely not "unsafe" by any stretch.

Ron
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
electro7 said:
Yeah the service conductors were coming u.........

Is there a code that says I can't run the service entrance conductors through a nipple and inside the main panel to the main breaker?
Click to expand...
You are good to go

From the NEC Handbook


All feeder and branch-circuit conductors must be separated from service conductors. Service conductors are not pro- vided with overcurrent protection where they receive their supply; they are protected against overload conditions at their load end by the service disconnect fuses or circuit breakers. The amount of current that could be imposed on feeder or branch-circuit conductors, should they be in the same raceway and a fault occur, would be much higher than the ampacity of the feeder or branch-circuit conductors. The gutter space of a panelboard cabinet or other electrical equipment enclosure is not a raceway (see definition of raceway in Article 100), therefore is not subject to the re- quirement of 230.7 Service conductors, feeder conductors, and branch circuit conductors can share the same gutter space, as shown in Exhibit 230.16. Conductor bending space requirements for cabinets are covered in 312.6 and 408.55, and conductor fill requirements for cabinet gutter spaces are covered in 312.8
 
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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
Occupation
Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
Ponchik said:
You are good to go

From the NEC Handbook


All feeder and branch-circuit conductors must be separated from service conductors. Service conductors are not pro- vided with overcurrent protection where they receive their supply; they are protected against overload conditions at their load end by the service disconnect fuses or circuit breakers. The amount of current that could be imposed on feeder or branch-circuit conductors, should they be in the same raceway and a fault occur, would be much higher than the ampacity of the feeder or branch-circuit conductors. The gutter space of a panelboard cabinet or other electrical equipment enclosure is not a raceway (see definition of raceway in Article 100), therefore is not subject to the re- quirement of 230.7 Service conductors, feeder conductors, and branch circuit conductors can share the same gutter space, as shown in Exhibit 230.16. Conductor bending space requirements for cabinets are covered in 312.6 and 408.55, and conductor fill requirements for cabinet gutter spaces are covered in 312.8
Click to expand...
Thanks!

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