Settle argument

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Re: Settle argument

Paul, we test meter to within either ?% or 1% accuracy for use in that manner (I am not sure what our accuracy is but it is in the neighborhood). :D
 
Re: Settle argument

I would guess that a meter used in a 120/240V single phase application would use two 120V voltage coils, and separate current coils to drive a single disc. This arrangement simply adds the power algebraically irrespective of the balance.
 
Re: Settle argument

for an exiting facility....it is just not wise to make such a change. It will cost a lot of $$$$ to make the changes and return on investment (ROI) will take a long time.

If you are building from the ground up, it is wiser to work with the higher voltages... the key here is that equipment that operate at higher voltages tend to have better efficiencies ...and in reality this applies to large installations and more so for industrial than commercial.

But more to the point, if he is looking for savings, the energy efficiency is what he is looking for. It is much wiser to use flourescent lighting instead of incandescent or HID for example, more efficient motors, etc...and you can do all that without spending $$$ to change the voltage.

And to give your supervisor some points...it comes down to the size of the facility and its operating conditions. If he gets into the energy efficient mindset and you are talking about a very large facility, such as a pharmaceutical plant that operates 24/7, where you have humbrededs, maybe a couple thousand motors, running uniterrupted for months at a time, then in the long run, the savings add up quickly...but you get it from energy efficient equipment......and you get better efficiencies at higher voltages

Note...please don't think that operating a multi-tap equipment at a higher voltage will consume less energy...a more efficient equipment will do that for you :D
 
Re: Settle argument

Other possibilities are installation of capacitor banks to improve power factor if you are paying significant PF penalties and staggering heavy loads to reduce demand charges. However, neither of these options is a no brainer.
 
Re: Settle argument

actually, i'm pretty sure that your household wattmeter is not a wattmeter. it's an ammeter.

and years and years ago when i was in electronics school, my teacher told me that since that is the case, you should always choose a higher voltage application when you can, because the household meter measures current only.

An actual wattmeter is a very expensive thing. Why do you think you can't just go into the store and buy a 'wattmeter'?

because there are only two kinds of wattmeters. One is a simple device that captures ALL of the energy and converts it to heat, does a measurement of the change, and gives an output.

The other kind is one that measures volts, and amperes, and does calculations, and gives a reading afterward.

Household wattmeters arent that sophisticated. they're a simple ammeter.

[ June 05, 2005, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: digitap ]
 
Re: Settle argument

Originally posted by digitap:
actually, i'm pretty sure that your household wattmeter is not a wattmeter. it's an ammeter.
Click to expand...
It has to be a watt meter in order to charge us by the kilowatt hour. :)

If it was just an amp meter I would go out and buy all 240 volt appliances. :D
 
Re: Settle argument

it's an ammeter, buddy.

like i said: why do you think you've never owned a wattmeter?

By the way thanks, and i just went to ur link, it's cool.

hey i went to the site and started thinking about wattmeters etc.

And while i haven't thought about metering anything but r.f. power in the 'wattmeter' sense, i can see that there's a volt coil and an amps coil.and, i understand that the meter is supposed to measure the true rms wattages;

however, i'm pretty sure, that that volt coil is connected between the two hot feeds in, on a 240 volt system, and that there aren't two volt coils, or, two current coils, is that right?

Now i realize i just popped up and entered the argument without the slightest preparation lol but if there is no current flow, then that meter is going to stand still, isn't it?

and the more current flow, the more movement?

how does it determine whether you are using your current at 120, as opposed to 240?

[ June 05, 2005, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: digitap ]
 
Re: Settle argument

Originally posted by digitap:
it's an ammeter, buddy.

like i said: why do you think you've never owned a wattmeter?
Click to expand...
I have never owned a watt meter due to the fact I would have no need for one, I don't sell electricity. :)
 
Re: Settle argument

lol i feel like a moron but i never really thought about it, and took the guy at his word years and years ago

i did a search for consumer wattmeters there's scores of the things for sale lol

[ June 05, 2005, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: digitap ]
 
Re: Settle argument

The original question with regards to this guy's boss saying that by changing the plant lighting circuit from 120 volt to 240 volts he will save on our power bill.

His response about watts is correct.

One issue overlooked to now is that there will be a reduction in watts all other things remaining the same. The reduction will be in the (I)x(I)xR
(I squared loss). The magnitude will depend on the size of the facility.

PS. Remember "Bosses are always boss and that you can not argue with ignorance".
 
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