sevice grounds

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puckman

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ridgewood, n.j.
i need some help with this job and i was hoping some of you inspectors or contractors can help out.
i got knocked down on 4 family service because the inspector said i used the wrong method of terninating my grounds coming from the water pipe and the ground rods. this is a 200 amp service i used a #4 coming from the water line and ground rods and went to the panels. i dropped a # 6 from each 60amp. panel and bugged them each seperatly to the #4. the inspector said it has to be a irrevisable conection. is there another way to get this done and pass inspection? does irreversable mean a cad weld? thanks for any help
 
service grounds

service grounds

when the #4 gets to the panels it does not go into the panels. i take a # 6 from the panel through a kinney connector and bugged it to the #4 . i do that at each panel. the #4 goes along on the board under the panels. this is the first time doing a service in this city. we done it that way numerous times in other towns without a problem. also in that city you have to use the kinney connector wher e in the other places you don't thanks
 
You are permitted to tap the GEC and go to each panel. The GEC is sized according to 250.66 based on the service entrance conductor size. Irreversible connection are not required for these taps. There is a good graphic in the 2005 NEC Handbook that depicts this. Exhibit 250.26. Ask the inspector for a code reference.

But after reading the OP again I'm confused. You have a 200 amp panel and a few 60 amp panels?
 
I think that 250.64 C is what the inspector is citing, but that 250.64 D is the case in point ? (ie the #4 should have been run to the mdp if it exists, but the other taps are ok with listed connectors (and listed connectors, not one-way connectors, are allowed ?)
 
servie ground

servie ground

this was a service upgrade from a 100amp. to 200amp. there was not any increase in the load. owner wanted to get rid of the fpe panels with little expense. and i did say 60 amp. but i have 4 50amp. and 1 30 amp. for the house panel. there is not a mdp. thanks for the response .

i just read 250.26 and it said that the tap has to be made without a splice or a joint. i'am thinking of getting a compresson connector that i can crimp 2 # 4 together , i'll keep the tap at #4. or even trying to find a place to rent the mold for cadwelding them.
 
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I don't see a requirement for GEC taps to be continuous, however I don't see how the #4 can just end in the middle of nowhere and still be a GEC. It seems to me that the #4 should land in one of the disconnects, IMO.

I share Brian's skepticism of the Kenny Clamp requirement. If I recall correctly, the only area I've heard of that required it was the hometown of it's inventor; but that could be my memory too.
 
service ground

service ground

i think in the op i stated a # 6 came down from each panel and was bugged to the #4 which is not a irreversable connection. sorry that i'am not clear.
my problem right is finding a way to connect the # 6 to the #4 thanks for you post.
 
puckman said:
i think in the op i stated a # 6 came down from each panel and was bugged to the #4 which is not a irreversible connection. sorry that i'am not clear.
my problem right is finding a way to connect the # 6 to the #4 thanks for you post.
Click to expand...


That connection is not required to be irreversible. Ask the inspector where is says that taps to the GEC are required to be irreversible. Personally I would have brought the #4 GEC to the first disconnect and then tapped with a #6 to each of the other disco's. However your method is code compliant. You should review 250.64(D).
 
infinity said:
That connection is not required to be irreversible.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Personally I would have brought the #4 GEC to the first disconnect and then tapped with a #6 to each of the other disco's. However your method is code compliant.
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I don't see how, with the disconnect side of the #4 going nowhere? :confused:
 
He is calling this a 200 amp service, yet that is not exactly what he has.

I believe he has 5 service disconnecting means.
1 - 30A
4 - 50A
He has provided a 4 AWG from the water to a location close to 5 service disconnects.
From the different disconnects he has 5 different GEC taps as permitted by 250.64(D).

The connection of the GEC taps to the GEC is not required to be unbroken or unspliced. The last sentence of 250.64(D) gives guidance as to how to make that splice. A split bolt connector would be permitted.
 
georgestolz said:
Agreed.


I don't see how, with the disconnect side of the #4 going nowhere? :confused:
Click to expand...


Replace the word disconnect with panel. (Although the panel contains the service disconnect).


Personally I would have brought the #4 GEC to the first disconnect
Click to expand...

Personally I would have brought the #4 GEC to the first panel.
 
georgestolz said:
I share Brian's skepticism of the Kenny Clamp requirement. If I recall correctly, the only area I've heard of that required it was the hometown of it's inventor; but that could be my memory too.
Click to expand...
That's my recollection as well... That and a quarter will get you a phone call. :wink:

AFAIR, it was somewhere in Maryland, but freelancing inspectors around that region have taken up the cause. I had never heard of a "kenny clamp" outside of this forum, although I did always wonder why the GEC was allowed to roam free like that!
 
We have done many services and never used a Kenney clamp. I just did a service that will be inspected this week and didn't use one. I'm curious to see what the inspector says.
 
i always used a romex connector for the gec until i did a service in this town, that was the first time i heard of a kinney clamp. is there a correct way to do this?
 
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service grounds

service grounds

puckman said:
i always used a romex connector for the gec until i did a service in this town, that was the first time i heard of a kinney clamp. is there a correct way to do this?
Click to expand...
Yes using a listed connector and a nm connector is not one of them.
 
puckman said:
i always used a romex connector for the gec until i did a service in this town, that was the first time i heard of a kinney clamp. is there a correct way to do this?
Click to expand...

I went looking for an old thread, and found Mike Holt's response to this issue, here. It was in this thread, which is a good read on the Kenny Clamp, IMO.

Celtic also linked to three threads in the one I linked to above, I didn't check them out but I'm sure they're probably goodies. ;)
 
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