SFR Stairway lighting

[allenwayne]

Read it slower!
I'll break it up for you, as I feel your way out wrong in your interpretation. Plus it makes no common sense.

1)there shall be at least one lighting outlet containing a switch shall be installed at each floor level. A landing is not considered a floor level or my house would be a 7 story house.
2)and landing levels that includes an entry way. Is there an ENTRY on the landing?
3)where the stairway between floors has six RISERS or more.
What this means is if there is less than 6 risers between floors there is no need for the 3way switch at the top & bottom of the 5 steps or less.

You are so wrong, thinking that if on a single residence stairway with, lets say, Visualize this if you can, 2 landings between the first & second floor, with no other floors or entrys on the landings, and 7 risers/steps between each landing...OK? You would put another switch on each landing? resulting in 2 4way switches on the landing plus the 2 3ways at the top & bottom?

Your just messing with us right???

What constitutes a floor level????Does a stair constitute a floor level NO,Does a landing without an entry constitute a floor level ???Ask our inspectors they require a switch at each and every landing the extends 6 risers or more to have a means of lighting control regardless of an entry or not.There is nothing in the NEC that defines a floor level.So unless you can show me where in the NEC it IS NOT REQUIRED I keep with my post it is required.

 

[infinity]

What constitutes a floor level????Does a stair constitute a floor level NO,Does a landing without an entry constitute a floor level ???Ask our inspectors they require a switch at each and every landing the extends 6 risers or more to have a means of lighting control regardless of an entry or not.There is nothing in the NEC that defines a floor level.So unless you can show me where in the NEC it IS NOT REQUIRED I keep with my post it is required.

Allen, what you're saying is that a landing on a stairwell is a floor? I would disagree. When I go into a high rise building the elevator stops at each floor level. When I go into the stairwell there are landing between each floor. Clearly these are not the same thing. This would also apply to a dwelling. The landing is not a floor level.

 

[dlhoule]

Allen

What constitutes a floor level????Does a stair constitute a floor level NO,Does a landing without an entry constitute a floor level ???Ask our inspectors they require a switch at each and every landing the extends 6 risers or more to have a means of lighting control regardless of an entry or not.There is nothing in the NEC that defines a floor level.So unless you can show me where in the NEC it IS NOT REQUIRED I keep with my post it is required.

IMO your inspectors are wrong. In most states there are appeal processes to deal with situations like that. If you have no appeal process, I guess you are stuck with inspectors deciding that a landing is a floor level. How would they handle a circular staircase where every 7th tread is wider? Would that constitute a landing (floor level)?

 

[dlhoule]

On an open staircase; do they require this switch to be mounted on a post? If so, how do you get the wire to the post? Are you required to mess up a beautiful staircase to run wiring for a switch?

 

[be4jc]

77401 Ther are other codes beside the NEC and the building code requires that all of the stairway be lit to a min. of 1 foot candle power! 2003 IBC section 1205.4 (Theres your code section YOU LOOSE) and switched at both top & bottom of stairway and at landings that have entry to another room or exterior
now if the dimmer is turned all the way down. the other switch DOES NOT provide required lighting for the stairway. Note that this stairway DID NOT light at all when the dimmer was turned down.

 

[macmikeman]

Even though the installation meets code, you could suggest using a "smart dimmer" with a remote at the other end. Then it could be dimmed or full brite controlled from either end, for at least about a week or so until the thing fails to work right any longer. And if the electrician doesn't like the idea, then forget about the whole thing, cause there is no code that lets you fail the job.

 

[77401]

Note that this stairway DID NOT light at all when the dimmer was turned down.

It was inspected during the day? Right? Did you measure the foot candles? During the day? how do you know that there wasn't sufficient ft/candles? WHat do you use to measure foot candles with? I've never seen the measured.
Fine turn it down. The dimmer goes back in when you leave, don't you get it?
The HO wants a dimmer & so do I!

 

[LarryFine]

Don't mention foot-candles, please! Ghyaah! We just completed a restaurant, and this city actually uses a light meter to make sure there is a minimum of 1fc at the floor for the entire egress pathway, with no gaps in strength.

We passed on the first try (Every inspection first try, actually. We were the only ones who did.) Why? Because we bought our own light meter and dragged it slowly along the floor, the entire way. It had a short cord, too!

One more peeve: it has an auto-off feature, and it defauts to lux, not cp. We had to go over a couple of places twice. PITA! But, we passed final inspection. Yay! Drinks on me! (They were, too.)

 

[dnem]

Even though the installation meets code, you could suggest using a "smart dimmer" with a remote at the other end. Then it could be dimmed or full brite controlled from either end, for at least about a week or so until the thing fails to work right any longer.

"dimmed or full brite controlled from either end"
That would satisfy the minimum light requirement of building code.
And if it breaks in the future, that's not a concern of the building inspectors.

And if the electrician doesn't like the idea, then forget about the whole thing, cause there is no code that lets you fail the job.

I don't know what you mean by "cause there is no code that lets you fail the job". If you mean that you don't fail NEC requirements if you don't want to remove the standard type 3ways, you're right. But you still fail the final electrical inspection because the electrical isn't complete. It's not complete until your installation can pass building codes without additional work being performed.

David

 

[dnem]

It was inspected during the day? Right? Did you measure the foot candles? During the day? how do you know that there wasn't sufficient ft/candles? WHat do you use to measure foot candles with? I've never seen the measured.
Fine turn it down. The dimmer goes back in when you leave, don't you get it?
The HO wants a dimmer & so do I!

The light level requirement must be met at any time of the day or night so the measurement should be taken at night when there is no ambient light from outside coming in. Even offices that are only used during the day are still occupied at 5pm in the wintertime which is nighttime in Ohio. In practice, the measurements are taken during the day with shades drawn because inspectors don't work at night.

At our department we never take a light meter out to a residence. If the light has a direct path to each stairtread [without attempting to bounce the light off of a wall], then it passes the lighting requirement. There's no pathway lighting requirements in a house, just the stairway treads and exterior of all man doors.

"The dimmer goes back in when you leave, don't you get it?"
I doesn't matter if we "get it" or we don't "get it. After the inspector leaves, you can do anything you want and will be forced to take full responsibility for everything you do. If there is a fire and/or injury that results from any change you make, you're going to have to answer in court. You may be in civil court or even in criminal court. You can break any codes or laws that you want but will be required to take full responsibility for your actions.

The question is:
Do you "get it" ?

David

 

[dnem]

What constitutes a floor level????Does a stair constitute a floor level NO,Does a landing without an entry constitute a floor level ???Ask our inspectors they require a switch at each and every landing the extends 6 risers or more to have a means of lighting control regardless of an entry or not.There is nothing in the NEC that defines a floor level.So unless you can show me where in the NEC it IS NOT REQUIRED I keep with my post it is required.

Any inspector that would require a switch on any landing needs to explain a phrase in the NEC

210.70(A)(2)(c) "that includes an entry"

What do these 4 words mean ?
What function do these 4 words serve since the code already states "there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level" ?

Those 4 words have a meaning and that meaning impacts the sentence. If you're requiring a switch at each and every landing regardless of other considerations then what is the function of those next 4 words ?

David

 

[77401]

Hey Allen Wayne.
Don't they teach Common sense in yout inspectors class?
Yesterday I thought of you when I was on a job.
New Custom Macmansion with a grand Entry, big stairway in the entry. Stairs go up about 15 steps to a landing about 10-15 feet long then turn 180 degrees back up another 15 steps. Nothing on the landing but a decorative plant & a hanging picture.
I told this HO about your post wanting a switch on this "landing" for control of the lights. She shook her head too......