Shady business?

O

OldeTimer

Member
Location
Midwest
Occupation
Journeyman
Hello all,
I just y wanted to run something past some of you that may have a better understanding of what I am seeing.

I was told to layout a pipe run for some apprentices. I was told by a foreman that we had some cheap labor coming in to run the conduit. It peaked my interest because I had never heard that term used in the electrical trade. When I hear that I automatically think they have hired illegals. I asked the question and he said he did not know. I then asked if they spoke English and he said they did not, but they worked for cheap. I found his wording strange, so I decided to look a little deeper. I googled the name of the company and noticed that the Business was located in one State and the Master was very possibly located in another state and about 100 Apprentices were listed with the state but not a single journeyman.

My guess that this is not an electrical contractor but a company that farms out cheap labor to other ECs.

They company had paid a fine for using unsupervised Apprentices in 2024 so I'm guessing they are also acting as an EC.

Is anyone able to shed a little more light on this? It seems to be a common practice because I have heard that they have used this kind of labor on other projects. It just seems strange to have so many Apprentices and no licenses.
 
OldeTimer said:
company had paid a fine for using unsupervised Apprentices in 2024 so I'm guessing they are also acting as an EC.
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Journeyman-card & apprentice program rules wont apply to developers & GC’s, just the EC pee on’s.

No EC license, no JW’s required.
 
ramsy said:
Journeyman-card & apprentice program rules wont apply to developers & GC’s, just the EC pee on’s.

No EC license, no JW’s required.
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As far as I can tell they are an EC. They have a Master and the word Electric in their name
 
They can't do that here, unless the electrical inspector never finds out they were there, still technically against state law even if on a job that doesn't require permit or inspection though those are places where you see more those incidents that violates these sort of laws.

The contractor would need to have a state license, even if he did but hired such help he needs a certain number of journeymen to apprentices ratio, can't recall but is like one journeyman for every five apprentices or close to that. The Journeyman can have a state license or a license from a state that reciprocates licensing with this state. The apprentices need to be registered with the state.
 
How do you get relieved from liability if there is a problem with their installation? Once you pull the wire you are on the hook.
 
ptonsparky said:
Make phone calls or close your eyes, do what you need to and wait to see the results. Could very well be an excellent job. Language spoken has nothing to do with skills.
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They are not being used for their skills, they are being used for their cheap labor. I have heard the saying that if they don't like one of them they can be easily traded out for a new one, unlike the people that actually work for the company.

I know a little bit of Spanish and have been talking to one of them. She is a young woman from Guatemala. That is really all I know besides her name.

There also is a second company in our area that does the same thing. It seems to me that if they could use more of them they would phase out as many company workers as they could.

I feel sad about all of this. I grew up in this industry and something just doesn't seem right about it.
 
kwired said:
They can't do that here, unless the electrical inspector never finds out they were there, still technically against state law even if on a job that doesn't require permit or inspection though those are places where you see more those incidents that violates these sort of laws.

The contractor would need to have a state license, even if he did but hired such help he needs a certain number of journeymen to apprentices ratio, can't recall but is like one journeyman for every five apprentices or close to that. The Journeyman can have a state license or a license from a state that reciprocates licensing with this state. The apprentices need to be registered with the state.
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I'll have to look closer at our state laws.
 
Best I know, that is legal in some states if they are unskilled, but have proper supervision. Legal but may be problematic. Will they assure no sharp or burred edges? No exceeding bends? Who is supervising and how closely? You personally would probably not be on the hook for any problems unless the job is permitted under your license.
 
It’s the reality of the world we live in, in fact, the world this country created.

We had the 50’s, and those who had it burned it down.

This country is overfed, lazy, and entitled, in general, and there is still work to be done. So, those whose are willing to do the work, will get the work

All the workers from 50-80 years ago sent their kids to college to study their gender, so there’s no one left to actually do the work. And this country survives on slave labor, like they have for 200 years. They just call them “ illegals” now. It’s all the same.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
It’s the reality of the world we live in, in fact, the world this country created.

We had the 50’s, and those who had it burned it down.

This country is overfed, lazy, and entitled, in general, and there is still work to be done. So, those whose are willing to do the work, will get the work

All the workers from 50-80 years ago sent their kids to college to study their gender, so there’s no one left to actually do the work. And this country survives on slave labor, like they have for 200 years. They just call them “ illegals” now. It’s all the same.
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Sadly, there's a lot of truth to this.
 
Slavery goes back well before US history. Some the details about it have changed and many of today's slaves are more of a voluntary thing than it used to be.
 
Time to get back to the concept of using cheap labor while staying away from the reasons of why the labor may be cheap.

What conditions need to exist to make this practice acceptable/unacceptable?
State and local laws
Supervision
Training
Employee turnover

How is a cheap dedicated laborer worse than a licensed laborer who hasn't done this work in the past 10 years or the laborer who is doing just enough to get by until some better job comes along?
 
acrwc10 said:
How do you get relieved from liability if there is a problem with their installation? Once you pull the wire you are on the hook.
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Forum members wont provide legal advice, but we are interested in suggestions, to bring to a qualified attorney.

My warranty has saved my bacon, with language that specifically excludes alterations of my work.

My contract includes options for abatement of defects encountered beyond my scope, and indemnity from hazards beyond my control, but that language requires supporting evidence for each case.

My invoices cite increased hazard not insureable, and recommend abatement where required.

But no written policy is valid without demonstrated action that separates your work, especially when laborers mingle with the electrical, or compete for it.
 
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