sharing emt with a battery back up

[peter d]

NM coils are 250', not 500'

DOH! Talk about an insane error on my part, considering I mostly use romex. :roll:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If it is about cost of material and labor i would be pulling romex.Some times we want better quality.In my case its only going to cost me a few extra hours to do the job.Would i do this on a spec house ? Not a chance in h---

 

[tryinghard]

It really is the cost of labor and I'll tell ya it's over 60% savings in labor to cable rather than conduit. You can spend 15% more in material with MC rather than conduit but it doesn't matter if you save over 60% labor installing it and conduit is not even slightly safer than MC cable as far as functioning.

That's not to mention NM cable, it's entirely safe and correct, nothing I've ever wired has burned down, as a matter of fact I do not even know an electrician that is responsible for a home burning down because of NM cable. History is worth something, I think a lot of money and time is spent out of fear with this topic.

Electrical is only ever installed wrong by non-electricians, a real electrician does not install wrong! Does any one know an electrician who is responsible for a house burning because of NM cable?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Electrical is only ever installed wrong by non-electricians, a real electrician does not install wrong!

Then why do inspectors need red tags?

 

[tryinghard]

Actually it is human to error, even for a good electrician. My point is an electrician does not make glaring dangerous mistakes because they know and respect the limits of their trade. Would a dentist who works on your tonsils or a front tooth when your back molar is the problem be considered a dentist or even a dentist who made a mistake? I wonder though when does the inspector write a red tag for an electrical installation?

 

[hbiss]

one duplex on normal #12 20 amp arc fault,and other to be for small battery back up 1800 watt with batteries that can hold up for about 10 hours at half load if needed.

Questions here are: 1) will AFCI breakers be required for the backup circuit and 2) what will this UPS be, where will it be located and how will it be connected to the house wiring?

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

Does any one know an electrician who is responsible for a house burning because of NM cable?

No, but I have seen NM that was chewed to the copper by rats, mice and squirrels plenty of times. Not the electrician's fault if NM is permitted and there is a fire because of this but...

-Hal

 

[tryinghard]

Does any one know an electrician who is responsible for a house burning because of NM cable?

No, but I have seen NM that was chewed to the copper by rats, mice and squirrels plenty of times.-Hal

Me to, and termites eat wood and mildew also weakens the structure but we cannot fully replace wood frame with metal stud mainly because of resource availability. These scenarios actually happen but they are poor reasons to inflate the application. Conduit has good reasons to be installed in some applications but it is not a better application in all cases, cable is just fine in residential applications.

 

[sparky_magoo]

I think AFCI's are required on the back up bed room ckt. Has anyone tried using AFCI's supplied by a generator? I wonder how many nuisance trips will occur?

 

[jes25]

If NM has a safety issue I think it is due to partial damage from long nails(ie: 2" siding nail, 3" trim nails etc.) The nail can partial damage the conductor and cause a fire or even a shock hazard. We also have the hazard of staples being too tight and causing arcing. With the pipe method even if a nail did penetrate the EMT, it would trip the breaker.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

one duplex on normal #12 20 amp arc fault,and other to be for small battery back up 1800 watt with batteries that can hold up for about 10 hours at half load if needed.

Questions here are: 1) will AFCI breakers be required for the backup circuit and 2) what will this UPS be, where will it be located and how will it be connected to the house wiring?

-Hal

I have gave thought to the afci part of this but see no way i can provide that.It in itself would be plugged into the afci outlet but i dont think it can offer afci on its output.Whats involved here is what is more safe.Being without lights could be far more risky than lack of afci on this backup system.Rest of the house was built in 73 and has yet to be upgraded to afci,but that will come soon as they built afci breakers that really work.

 

[hbiss]

I have gave thought to the afci part of this but see no way i can provide that.

I wasn't asking if you could or wanted to do it. I was asking if it was required. Seems to me that it would be.

-Hal

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Yes it is required.Does that mean that we can not use them boxes that provide 120 volts from a battery in a bedroom ? or are they exempt because they are an appliance thats not fixed in place ? Looks like i opened a can of worms again.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Jim,
The code does not apply to a "plug-in" UPS, but in the orginal post it looked like you were installing the UPS remote and installing an UPS supplied outlet in the bedroom...in that case it is a bedroom outlet and requires AFCI protection.
Don

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim,
The code does not apply to a "plug-in" UPS, but in the orginal post it looked like you were installing the UPS remote and installing an UPS supplied outlet in the bedroom...in that case it is a bedroom outlet and requires AFCI protection.
Don

That is what i have in mind.Really not sure what i could do to get around this.exstintion cords would be legal i guess but hard wire not.Now thats kinda crazy ?