Shed - Power NEC

[TRMElectricianJourneyman]

Hello!
My buddy wants (2) 20a circuits in his finished shed for a small work place(computers, musical equipment and a portable AC). The shed is a detached structure, up on pillars. My plan was to run 10ga off of a 30a, 2-Pole(Does this need to be AFCI or GFCI...or both?). The plan was to install (2) GFCI receps and daisy chain through. The inspector is allowing either a subpanel with a main breaker or a disconnect. If I go with the subpanel, NEC requires a main breaker panel for this, which seems like overkill because the only ones I can find locally are 100a or more....again, he only wants (2) circuits. He has no intentions of expanding or selling in the future. Already tried talking him into the bigger panel for future use. no dice.
Question;
If I mount the disconnect; do I still need to drive grounding rods? I was planning to, if he wanted the subpanel, but now that it's a disconnect I'm wondering if it's required.

 

[augie47]

One choice would be to run a 20amp MWBC onn a DP20 and install wall switch type disconnects.
No ground rods required if you do that.

 

[Little Bill]

Hello!
My buddy wants (2) 20a circuits in his finished shed for a small work place(computers, musical equipment and a portable AC). The shed is a detached structure, up on pillars. My plan was to run 10ga off of a 30a, 2-Pole(Does this need to be AFCI or GFCI...or both?). The plan was to install (2) GFCI receps and daisy chain through. The inspector is allowing either a subpanel with a main breaker or a disconnect. If I go with the subpanel, NEC requires a main breaker panel for this, which seems like overkill because the only ones I can find locally are 100a or more....again, he only wants (2) circuits. He has no intentions of expanding or selling in the future. Already tried talking him into the bigger panel for future use. no dice.
Question;
If I mount the disconnect; do I still need to drive grounding rods? I was planning to, if he wanted the subpanel, but now that it's a disconnect I'm wondering if it's required.

You can still run the #10 but it would have to be on a 20A 2-pole breaker. Run it as a MWBC as augie suggested.
Run you conductors to a 2-pole switch
From the switch to a junction box
Split out from the junction box with your two circuits to your loads (receptacles, light switches, etc)

 

[TRMElectricianJourneyman]

One choice would be to run a 20amp MWBC onn a DP20 and install wall switch type disconnects.
No ground rods required if you do that

Thanks!!

 

[LarryFine]

Welcome to the forum.

You can use a 30a feeder to supply a 100a sub-panel.

 

[TRMElectricianJourneyman]

You can still run the #10 but it would have to be on a 20A 2-pole breaker. Run it as a MWBC as augie suggested.
Run you conductors to a 2-pole switch
From the switch to a junction box
Split out from the junction box with your two circuits to your loads (receptacles, light switches, etc)

This is the new plan! Thanks!

 

[TRMElectricianJourneyman]

Welcome to the forum.

You can use a 30a feeder to supply a 100a sub-panel.

That's what I was going to do, but he doesn't want to expand. He only wants (2) 20a dedicated circuits for his equipment, so the 100a is way overkill for what he needs, plus more $$$ than he wants to spend.

 

[AC\DC]

100 amp panel is liken 89 bucks? You can have smaller conductors feeding what ever size panel you want

 

[curt swartz]

100 amp panel is liken 89 bucks? You can have smaller conductors feeding what ever size panel you want

But if a feeder is installed then a grounding electrode system is also required. A standard 2P toggle switch with box is ~$10

 

[AC\DC]

Ya another 60 bucks in parts. If he on a really tight budget then ya.
You don’t need a main breaker if your under six throws and if you have an amendment for a main
, then back feed breaker is cheap

 

[tom baker]

That's what I was going to do, but he doesn't want to expand. He only wants (2) 20a dedicated circuits for his equipment, so the 100a is way overkill for what he needs, plus more $$$ than he wants to spend.

Use a 6 ckt main lug panel with a backfed main breaker, and hold down kit on main

 

[letgomywago]

Ac disconnect outside and small 6 space panel inside is my vote. 2 ground rods aren't that hard to install.

 

[jap]

I'd use 2p 20a breaker to feed it, an AC pullout on the outside of the shed for my disconnect and use the 2 load side lugs to split the 2 circuits from there.

Probably not much more cost, leaves more room for wiring, and, actually resembles a disconnect rather than a light switch.

JAP>

 

[Little Bill]

Ac disconnect outside and small 6 space panel inside is my vote. 2 ground rods aren't that hard to install.

Maybe not in your soil, but try it in hard clay scattered with rocks!
I don't know why some keep saying add a subpanel, the OP clearly said there were only two circuits. Also the customer didn't want to spend much. No use adding the ground rods if you don't have to. I also believe the OP has settled on the MWBC.

 

[TRMElectricianJourneyman]

Going with the 2-pole, 20a to a general use 20a switch(225.36), down to gfi receps and 2 lights. Unfortunately it forces me to use 12ga on the lights, but not the end of the world. No need for ground rods and extra breakers and panels

 

[suemarkp]

Is this circuit buried in the dirt, or is it surface run since the building is on pillars? If it is buried, redoing that is typically one of the bigger expenses if they do ever decide to upgrade the circuit count. I'd consider running 10-3 or 8-3 cable, but just put it on a 20A double pole for now to make it cheaper by avoiding the panel and ground electrode system.

 

[infinity]

Going with the 2-pole, 20a to a general use 20a switch(225.36), down to gfi receps and 2 lights. Unfortunately it forces me to use 12ga on the lights, but not the end of the world. No need for ground rods and extra breakers and panels

If that's what the customer wants then just give it to them. As you can tell from the plethora of ideas many of us are good at spending other peoples money.

 

[AC\DC]

Some times they need a little push

 

[readydave8]

Is this circuit buried in the dirt, or is it surface run since the building is on pillars? If it is buried, redoing that is typically one of the bigger expenses if they do ever decide to upgrade the circuit count. I'd consider running 10-3 or 8-3 cable, but just put it on a 20A double pole for now to make it cheaper by avoiding the panel and ground electrode system.

Buried I like conduit anyway, sized.bigger than needed for future

 

[TRMElectricianJourneyman]

With the 2 pole switch, obviously it doesn’t disconnect the grounded(neutral). What’s the easiest method for bringing that to code? Looking at 225.38(C). I don’t think I’ve ever seen a terminal bus in a 4S…..