Shocking Water Lines

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T

Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
I went on a service call yesterday to find the problem, water Hydrant out side was biteing when touched. This is a rental house, No one living there right now.Owner wanted me to find problem.
On arrival I looked at the ground at meter base & Ground rod looked Ok.
Checked outside Hydrant for voltage, Read 101 volts to ground.
Kitchen sink also had voltage. I proceded to the basement area,
Had voltage on both Hot& cold water lines . By the way this is copper plumbing. I am standing here thinking where to start. Then I notice the water heater. Looks fairly new. I pull the disconnect . & recheck for voltage on water lines all voltage is gone.
Check a little farther to find no ground on water heater, no grounding of water lines. Called owner explained situation and recommended to run a new feed wire to waterheater 10/2 with ground Install new disconnect, and ground the water lines.Owner gave the go ahead to make the Repairs. Really lucky no one was seriously injured from this out of date wiring.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Power Tech said:
Have seen the wire inside the water heater melted in between the elements.

They just run the wire free in the insulation.

For sure it is the feed?
Click to expand...

All the things he is doing need to be done for safety but you are right there still is a problem. He needs to check from the hots at the water heater to the frame or ground. There is a wire pinched or melted or something. Maybe the short will be enough to trip the breaker once properly grounded.
 
S

satcom

Senior Member
growler said:
All the things he is doing need to be done for safety but you are right there still is a problem. He needs to check from the hots at the water heater to the frame or ground. There is a wire pinched or melted or something. Maybe the short will be enough to trip the breaker once properly grounded.
Click to expand...

Yes there is still a problem, we seen one last month where the neutral from the utility drop was loose and it made all the water piping in the house hot and even one of the neighbors homes.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Mr. Tea :)grin:), I suggest checking the water heater itself. There may be a leakage current between an element and the water inside.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
cadpoint said:
Is the electrical element electrically isolated to the tank ? or to say in respects to the tank!
Click to expand...

It is supposed to be, but when they go bad, they will burn through the tube they are enclosed in, this can put half of the element pulling current through the grounding, in some cases can still heat up without tripping a breaker, prior to buying a new house, I lived in a trailer, my old water heater was electric, and this happened to me a couple times, other times it would just trip the breaker depending upon the location of the burn through in the element, but in most cases, water would start leaking out the terminal block on the back of the element.

Water heaters and electric dryers are the two main causes of electrocutions on un-grounded trailers, both can short to ground causing the frame of the trailer to become hot.
And in one case caused a elderly friend of mine to be hospitalized, after an EC rewired a trailer park, using just a ground rod as the return path for the trailer frame.

Get this the trailers originally had four conductors, but because the EGC was bare, he thought he would remove it and just use a ground rod.:roll:
her Lawyer and Indiana HUD had a field day with this EC in court. Put it simply, she no longer had to live in a trailer, she bought a house, or should I say this EC's insurance did.;)
 
SPARKS40

SPARKS40

Member
Location
Northern Il
LarryFine said:
Mr. Tea :)grin:), I suggest checking the water heater itself. There may be a leakage current between an element and the water inside.
Click to expand...

If the heater is properly grounded, shouldn't it trip the CB if the element fails?I had this happen in my own home once, and the CB tripped when the element failed.
 
G

GoldenVolt

Member
It's a resistive element on more then likely a 2 pole 30 A CB, it will bleed voltage into the water and onto to the copper lines.
If the voltage is constant the problem is the upper element if it comes and goes it's the lower element.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
SPARKS40 said:
If the heater is properly grounded, shouldn't it trip the CB if the element fails?I had this happen in my own home once, and the CB tripped when the element failed.
Click to expand...

Not if it is dead in the center of the water/dryer element, but it should never present a shock hazard:

if there is a MBJ
if water heater has a EGC
if water pipe was bonded

get the picture:grin:

so the the real work is not done until these things have been checked.

anytime we go on a call that is about a possible shock hazard, we should always check for all possible problems, that led to the failure of the protection from shock hazards.
 
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B

brother

Senior Member
Location
"I have learned, in whatsoever STATE I am, therewi
Interesting info on the Water heater issues. I never thought about the 'heating element' causing electrical hazards. Ive only seen where the water wouldnt heat up, or not get hot enough on this issue. What do you guys think about water heaters being supplied with gfci??

This would help reduce electrical shock hazard.
 
T

Teaspoon

Senior Member
Location
Camden,Tn.
LarryFine said:
Mr. Tea :)grin:), I suggest checking the water heater itself. There may be a leakage current between an element and the water inside.
Click to expand...

very Good advice . I went back to this job Yesterday and did just that.
Found bad lower element. The tube was broken, Replaced element & run new 10/2 with ground.
Thanks to all for the input.
 
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