shorting out circuits

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Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Would you likely damage an arc fault breaker if you shorted an outlet to find what circuit it was on ? A friend just called me and said that was what he did and now it trips even with wires seperated at box he was working on. Already told him you should never do that.
 
It should not ruin the unit if he shorted from neutral to ground. I would hope an arc fault breaker wouldn't get ruined every time there was a short cir. but I am sure it can happen
 
From what he tells me the panels are not marked so he shorted hot to neutral. That found the breaker. Now he has bigger problem than when he started. Told him only other suggestion i have is remove the load wires off breaker and if still trip then breaker damaged. Looks like i will be making a trip to the house. House belongs to a friend of his. New house with many problems. I just have not done any residential in 5 years so not sure about arcfaults. If what he told me is true the house is almost new. Circuit is going to kitchen counter receptacles that have gfi receptacles. Was trying to fix it over phone since he is my AC man as well as a member of my nightclub. Somehow i see this as $50 breaker and maybe even a gfci receptacle or 2. He could have bought a cheap tracer.
 
He does not know if breaker is a gfi or arc fault. With gfi receptacle removed and all wires unhooked from everything the breaker trips. My understanding is that all 120 15 and 20 amp circuits must now be arc fault and also gfci protection in kitchen. I could be wrong as like i said not done residential in 5 years
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
My understanding is that all 120 15 and 20 amp circuits must now be arc fault and also gfci protection in kitchen. I could be wrong as like i said not done residential in 5 years
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Not all outlets need AFCI protection under the '08. Kitchen outlets do not require AFCI protection.

Jim, if the house has so many problems and is "almost new", why isn't the original EC fixing it under warranty?
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
He does not know if breaker is a gfi or arc fault. With gfi receptacle removed and all wires unhooked from everything the breaker trips. My understanding is that all 120 15 and 20 amp circuits must now be arc fault and also gfci protection in kitchen. I could be wrong as like i said not done residential in 5 years
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As John said this is not the case. I also wonder whether the breaker in the panel is wired correctly-- the correct neutral and hot under the breaker. Sounds like bad history in this house-- I also hope the house doesn't have the sheetrock that came from China. :D
 
As favor i will see it in the morning. We all know how words over phone confuse everything. From what i been told the owner fired many of the subs and this will likely haunt this house forever. They ended up in one area putting straight cool unit when wiring was for heat pump. All i intend to do is bail a friend out of a jam. He helped me out of a major jam so its payback time. Am sure he will never try locating a breaker this way again. I am guilty of same a few times but it really is stupid way to go. Worst i ever seen was a 208 chease melter in a restraunt. Needed to change receptacle. Breaker was not 2 pole but 2 singles and not in same panel. Nothing marked and my boss said short it out. Think of what all could have gone wrong ----------------
 
e57 said:
This buddy needs a reality check - he could have blown up the breaker &/or cooked the wiring...
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Actually i am hoping he did mess up only the breaker and not bus bar. People learn from mistakes, that is if they live thru it. Were far better ways to have done this. But it's too late, now simply time to fix.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Worst i ever seen was a 208 chease melter in a restraunt. Needed to change receptacle. Breaker was not 2 pole but 2 singles and not in same panel. Nothing marked and my boss said short it out. Think of what all could have gone wrong ----------------
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Holy Toledo! A lot. :rolleyes:
 
All fixed. As usual phone conversation and reality not the same. Breaker that trips had nothing to with this kitchen. Its a mother in law type apartment within main house. EC did lousy job. 1 Circuit for GD and DW ,that part i am fine with. Bad part is they only have 1 SA circuit for all 3 duplex resepts serving counter and also has frig on it. Sloppy panel and nothing labeled right. House has CO but far far from finished. Basically they ran out of money and this is or will be a 2 mil home. Shorted circuit remains unfixed untill they figure out whats not working. Typical helper type workmanship. You get what you pay for. If it was inspected a lot was missed. But kitchen is back up running.
 
You know I've got one of the cheapest costing, feeling, looking tracers out there are it works like a champ. Used it many times and love it. Think it was $10 or something around there.
 
Lot of cheap ways. When alone i have used 2 walkie talkies (cheap $10 kid type). tape the send button down and either use voltage ticker or radio. Anything is better than playing the short it out game. He really should not even be doing electrical. Knows just enough to get himself hurt.
 
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