Should a bare Aluminum neutral service entrance wire be twisted tightly?

[cgamad550]

It's possible that there's no neutral, and there may have been sketchy contact between grounds and bare neutral wires in both panels. And maybe some of those grounds weren't landed well

If so.....

now you would have cleaned up half and removed some of that contact and made the flickering worse.

Ok so do you think I need to just upgrade and put a install a new main service panel where there will be a true neutral to ground bond

 

[James L]

This is the before and after. Originally they had neutrals and grounds on the same bar which I know is a no no in a sub panel so of course done it correct with the new sub panel and separated. But now the flickering seems worse. But outside I don't really seen a neutral to ground bond.

I would look at the main panel for sure

 

[ptonsparky]

It’s obvious in the first picture you’ve had mice damage. You will have it again if you don’t close up those holes. Connectors do more than limit rodent intrusion. They limit fire spread.

Al or Cu wire needs to be removed, cleaned and reinstalled in clean lugs. Mouse urine is nasty.

You need to do a FOP test at each connection point with a static load. A hair dryer will work. You need a meter capable of milivolt readings. L1 line side of breaker to L1 load side. Repeat. Neutral conductor to neutral buss bar.

 

[cgamad550]

What are your voltages during the flickering? At both the main panel and the subpanel.
L1-L2
L1-G
L2-G
L1-N
L2-N
N-G

Hi Jim
Ok I have some numbers.
L-1 TO L-2 IS 247
L-1 TO N. 123.5
L-2 TO N. 123.9
THAT WAS WITH ALL THE BREAKERS TURNED OFF AND CHECKING AT THAT MAIN SERVICE ENTRANCE LUGS.
WITH THE POWER TURNED ON AND UNDER A LOAD WE TURNED ON THE MICROWAVE.
THIS HAPPEND
L-1 TO L-2 246.8
L-1 TO N. 118.3
L-2 TO N 127.6
SO I SUSPECT ITS A BAD OR LOST NEUTRAL ON THE UTILITY SIDE. SINCE VOLTAGE DROPED ON ONE LEG AND INCREASED ON THE OTHER LEG.
WOULD THAT POSSIBLY BE THE CORRECT NEXT STEP? THANKS

 

[LarryFine]

WITH THE POWER TURNED ON AND UNDER A LOAD WE TURNED ON THE MICROWAVE.
THIS HAPPEND
L-1 TO L-2 246.8
L-1 TO N. 118.3
L-2 TO N 127.6
SO I SUSPECT ITS A BAD OR LOST NEUTRAL ON THE UTILITY SIDE. SINCE VOLTAGE DROPED ON ONE LEG AND INCREASED ON THE OTHER LEG.
WOULD THAT POSSIBLY BE THE CORRECT NEXT STEP? THANKS

Bingo! Now we have some good, useful intel. Yes, that confirms a weakness in the neutral pathway.

If this imbalance occurs at the first place you have access after the meter, it's time to involve the POCO.

 

[cgamad550]

Yes like I said she had the flickering lights for a while and I just happened to look at the sub panel and it was a hot mess. Only 3 wires and neutrals and grounds together. So I replaced it, pulled 4 new wires and neutral grounds separated. Then once I got everything wired back up and turned on boom. Everything flickering everywhere, bathroom exhaust fan ect. Which I do place on replacing the old service entrance panel on a few weeks.
This house is 60-70 years old so was limited to what I had to work with.
I'm also guessing the overhead lines are probably very old as well. This is a before and after of the sub panel.

 

[LarryFine]

Then once I got everything wired back up and turned on boom. Everything flickering everywhere, bathroom exhaust fan ect. Which I do place on replacing the old service entrance panel on a few weeks.

Check the voltages there now.

 

[cgamad550]

Check the voltages there now.

Yes the readings I gave you was after the new panel was installed. I guess cleaning part of the that mess up just made the issue more noticable

 

[LarryFine]

Okay, my apologies, I see that you are checking at the service main lugs.

You've done all that you can do, so again, the POCO has to be called in.

Be sure that they also test under load; not all of them understand that.

 

[cgamad550]

I appreciate all your help. I've never had the issues with flickering lights and power fluctuating after I changed or installed a sub panel but I guess with the new equipment and having it properly connected it just made the issue stand out more. I'll have her call the power company tomorrow and get someone out to check their neutral. Hopefully that will correct the issue.
Here's a sub panel I just installed in my workshop today. Again thanks and I'll give you an update hopefully in a few days

Okay, my apologies, I see that you are checking at the service main lugs.

You've done all that you can do, so again, the POCO has to be called in.

Be sure that they also test under load; not all of them understand that.

Larry I have a question cause I'm back out here and I seen something I want to ask you. This was installed way before my time. In the box right below the meter the service feed wire come straight down into main lugs no disconnect ( main breaker ) the actual first disconnect ( main breaker ) is in the panel I installed inside the house. So would my first point of disconnect be the panel I installed inside? And if this is considered the first disconnect do I need to bond the neutral to ground inside?? Sorry for so many questions I've only been doing this a short time and learning and like I said this was probably installed in the 70s before I was born

 

[kwired]

Okay, my apologies, I see that you are checking at the service main lugs.

You've done all that you can do, so again, the POCO has to be called in.

Be sure that they also test under load; not all of them understand that.

Make sure you test under load before calling POCO. 1500 watt heater, heat gun, hair dryer, etc. makes a great test load for finding poor connections. It is enough load it should heat up a bad connection in short time and make it show itself via bad readings.

Check one line to neutral then the other line to neutral.

On top of that cheap LED lights will flicker with some of the smallest voltage changes and can be a problem even when your connections are fairly decent. Long service runs by POCO - sometimes not much you can do if that is part of the problem and POCO not willing to change things.

 

[LarryFine]

Make sure you test under load before calling POCO.

Check one line to neutral then the other line to neutral.

He did. He determined it's coming from the meter that way.

 

[Little Bill]

Yes like I said she had the flickering lights for a while and I just happened to look at the sub panel and it was a hot mess. Only 3 wires and neutrals and grounds together. So I replaced it, pulled 4 new wires and neutral grounds separated. Then once I got everything wired back up and turned on boom. Everything flickering everywhere, bathroom exhaust fan ect. Which I do place on replacing the old service entrance panel on a few weeks.
This house is 60-70 years old so was limited to what I had to work with.
I'm also guessing the overhead lines are probably very old as well. This is a before and after of the sub panel.

You need to plug those KO's in the bottom of the panel.