Should I just shut up

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brian john said:
I was in a supply house and two electricians were discussing the proper way to ground a generator, IMO both were wrong. One wanted to ground the neutral at the generator (2 pole ATS 240/120 single phase) and drive a ground rod, the other electrician wanted to isolate the neutral at the generator and attach it to two ground rods (he adamantly insisted the NEC requires two ground rods). I explained what I feel the NEC requires, both gave me a look like, are you stupid, especially when I attempted to explain the the purpose of a ground rod. They both shook their heads and one walked away and said something derogatory about how stupid I was. The other guy said the generator would not operate properly with the NEC REQUIRED ground rods. After a few drawings and trying to explain what I feel would be correct, I did what I should have done in the first place (I guess) and said sorry to have interrupted your conversation, take care and I left.

Is it wrong to try and help (educate) electricians? Or is it better to just mind your own business.
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I have always appreciated info or corrections. I have only been an electrcian for 7 years, and i have learned a lot ,but i don't know it all. But some people think they do and don't like to be corrected. To me there a dumb _ _ _.
 
i don't think you were wrong for trying. In fact, its a noble effort and the only way the world will ever change for the better. but like Bob said, the delivery has a lot to do with whether or not they listen. openings like "you are both wrong" usually shut people's minds down before the next words even come out, whereas "you might consider this" might have a chance. but whatever the approach, its a worthy effort.
 
I used to know a man who was a street corner preacher. He'd go to the corner of a busy street, stand on a crate, and preach his heart out with a loud voice. While the information he gave out was technically correct, in my opinion, it was not a method of communication that was well received. Few people ever stopped to listen. I often thought that if he put that same passion into a more effective means of communication, he could really be an influential guy. With that in mind, I have noticed something about electricians. They only times they seem open to being taught are when they signed up or paid for a class, bought a book, or chat on forum sites. These seem to be the only effective ways to communicate with electricians.
 
mdshunk said:
They only times they seem open to being taught are when they signed up or paid for a class, bought a book, or chat on forum sites. These seem to be the only effective ways to communicate with electricians.
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Marc, I agree, there seems to be a certain level of hard headed-ness that exists on the jobsite. And that's sad, because that is where the learning for people coming up in the trade is supposed to be happening.
 
peter d said:
Marc, I agree, there seems to be a certain level of hard headed-ness that exists on the jobsite. And that's sad, because that is where the learning for people coming up in the trade is supposed to be happening.
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Not just electricians... tradespeople in general. They need to have something invested themselves before they can plug into the learning process. That might be time or that might be money. You can give a guy a book, and he won't read it. If a guy buys a book, he'll read it. You can give an impromptu class to a helper in the van on the way to a job, and he won't take in a thing he hears. If that same helper has to take his Saturday or has his next raise tied to performance in a class, he'll suck it all in.

I remember a contractor once relating that he'd Xerox useful and valuable information and pass out to his guys, and became disheartened when it was seen in the waste can. I might be one of the rare guys that would have loved to had a boss like that, but I consider myself an exception in that regard. A more profitable arrangement might have been to tie some sort of raise or bonus to a later quiz on such information.
 
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brian john said:
I was in a supply house and two electricians were discussing the proper way to ground a generator, IMO both were wrong. I explained what I feel the NEC requires, both gave me a look like, are you stupid, especially when I attempted to explain the the purpose of a ground rod. They both shook their heads and one walked away and said something derogatory about how stupid I was.
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I believe at this point in time that you were just another electrician with an opinion. I'm not saying that the information that you had to offer was wrong but to the electricians involved in the arguement you are an unknown source of information.

I believe that they may continue to have this arguement until some one comes along that they know and trust, even respect, at this time they will try to get a ruling from that great electrical guru.

Had these guys known you for some time and built up a respect for your opinion I think things would have been different.

At one time in life a least half the eletricians I knew would call and ask for advice but that never kept the rest of the world from thinking I may be an idiot. ( heck , if they really got to know me they would be sure of it ).
 
mdshunk said:
When I go in Lowe's or Home Depot, I put a piece of duct tape over the embroidered company name on my shirt. That keeps people from asking me questions. I must admit, however, that it's real tough to bite my tongue when I hear potentially hazardous advice being given out, by an electrician or otherwise, but somehow I manage.
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I won't go into either - but when I did... I would get people walking up to me and hear - "Excuse me..." - learned long before to just stop them in their tracks - "I don't work here..." For that matter the employees of both dont dress in any color or uniform that looks anything like my work cloths - and I have no idea what draws them to me...

Anyway in other situations at actual supply houses that I frequent - I become the go-to guy if I'm there. All the counter help know me, and if they get some dumb question - they look at me. This then filters down to guys asking directly, not to mention every employee of every company I have ever worked for who might walk in, some even call me on the phone. Even people I have worked for...

Brian - do the right thing... If they dont ask, save yourself the trouble - because it may never end..... Just chuckle to yourself on the way out.... :grin:
 
e57 said:
not to mention every employee of every company I have ever worked for who might walk in, some even call me on the phone. Even people I have worked for...
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When I still had NexTel, my phone would 'beep-beep' with questions from people who's voices I sorta recognized but I had no idea who they were anymore. Years and years of people collecting my number. I would dutifully answer their question as best I could, and then just wonder who they might have been for the rest of the day.

I still have people who call my regular cell number now. One guy, in particular, always starts out with, "Do you have a minute". Even when I tell him I don't, like if I'm balanced on some rafters crawled back in an attic, he'll fire off his question anyhow.
 
Ughhhh....

Ughhhh....

No real angle for that Brian. You tried to help, you showed them on paper. It's really hard working with someone who doesn't want any answer other than their own. I do maintenance work. I have tried posting here on different pro's and con's on several different pieces of test equipment. Some listen, some disagree. To each their own. E.G., I saw the pictures of your footwear. I wouldn't have that, nor that lack of PPE that some others find no real use for. I am a safety stickler. I applaud you on trying to add to the conversation, and give two thumbs down on those whose walked away in ignorance and self pride.
I have given several examples of why I didn't like some of the others TE, and got shot down for it. That's okay, what may work for some, may not have well worked for others. Vice-versa.
At the very least, you tried to help and add insight, I applaud you for that. When you have someone, some people not willing to budge, well... if it's safe and works for you, than it's done the job.
Maybe they will learn the hard way, at their expense. They have NEC and AHJ to answer to, reap what it sows.

Actually, your original post is exactly why I like this forum so much. We are all entitled to our own views, agree or disagree;)
 
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