Should I move on?

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shockme123

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It's freezing here, Canada
Hello and Merry Christmas.

I recently re-started my apprenticeship after being in a computer support position for a while. I was laid off from that do to restructuring and am currently working on a medium scale commercial project with a local contractor. I'm liking the work so far, but it's difficult to get used to the culture, no paid holidays, sick days, vacation, and having to supply some power tools. I constantly get picked on by my younger journeyman and higher level apprentices and feel that this is hindering me from being better at my work. I'm a bit on the slow side when it comes to wiring and bending pipe and that has been pointed out several times. I think the only reason I haven't been laid off yet is that I'm on a government subsidy until June of next year that covers 80% of my salary. There were a few layoffs before Christmas affecting apprentices who are much better at this job than I am. I could get let go any day and feel like there's not much opportunity in this trade for me if that ends up happening. I live in a smaller part of the country with limited opportunities for other construction projects, but with the constant harassment going on around me on a daily basis I have to draw the line between not making it in this field and possibly having to move to another part of the country for better opportunities. I have enough hours to go back to school and complete my 3rd year but there's no guarantee that a job will be there for me upon my return. I know I'm not as good as the journeyman there but I do show up on time and have a good work ethic, unlike some of the other apprentices that the journeyman favors over me. I wish I good get though it but every day I just go home feeling crappy. I currently pay a mortgage on a rental property that I'm living in as well as my tenants, but the housing market has taken a dive here so I wouldn't be able to sell it and move even if I wanted to. I'm 31 years old so I'm a little late for having to start over again. Given my situation at both work and in my area in general do you think it's worth it to keep going with this trade? Thank you.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your situation as you've so thoroughly detailed it. Here are my two cents:

First off, construction is informal. Guys bust each others chops all day. That being said, if you're in an environment where the things that are said to you are done so strictly for the sake of being malicious, then it's time to move on. Much more concerning to me, however, is that it appears that you work in an environment where you are not receiving the on the job education that you should be. Apprenticeship programs are great, but the book knowledge is invariably useless without having the practical experience of doing the work. You need to work somewhere where you can further your on the job education.

I also understand the fear of being laid off and the trepidation over having to seek new employment. My advice: start looking now, even if there are limited opportunities in your immediate area, start looking at a 30 min radius from where you live. If you still don't find any, bump it up to 45 minutes, an hour, and so on. A long commute is a lot easier to deal with then uprooting yourself. And besides, it comes across in your post that you're not entirely convinced that this trade is something you could see yourself doing for the rest of your life. Make that commitment first, then the commitment to move in order to pursue the best opportunities in that career.

Lastly, the fact that you're 31 and only have two years in means nothing. If anything, it's an attribute. You have maturity and reliability on your side, something that the younger guys don't. We have a 52 year old guy at our company that has been an electrician for seven years. I love it when he's on my crew. He's no ball of fire, mind you, but his reliability and attitude can never be called into question. He's happy to be at work every day doing something that he truly enjoys, and, honestly, has a greater thirst for knowledge in our trade them any of the younger guys do, probably because he feels like he has some catching up to do.

hope the advice helps, best of luck
 
I went to a Tech HS as a post-secondary student at the age of 59. Then I worked as a journeyman for 5 years until full retirement age. About the time I retired I passed the Masters test and consult now and then when someone comes upon a puzzle. I need to spend most of my time at home as a caregiver for my wife who has MS, else I'd probably still be working full-time as a maintenance electrician. The fact that I had been a software engineer and was the type with self-(over)confidence allowed me to essentially ignore the attitude directed at me. I don't know what sort of experience you had in computer support, but if you can specialize in maintenance rather than construction, you will find that problem-solving skills, rather than just speed of slapping up conduit and running circuits, is a great asset.

Look for a speciality -- fire alarms and computer-based control systems are great ones with lots of potential for good pay. Look into control panel construction. Consider becoming a Power Substation Technician. If you apply yourself and have the ability to understand technical topics (not that learning the NEC is not a technical feat) you may be able to find work where you are more appreciated.


Hang in there and good luck.
 
kenman215 said:
I'm sorry to hear about your situation as you've so thoroughly detailed it. Here are my two cents:

First off, construction is informal. Guys bust each others chops all day. That being said, if you're in an environment where the things that are said to you are done so strictly for the sake of being malicious, then it's time to move on. Much more concerning to me, however, is that it appears that you work in an environment where you are not receiving the on the job education that you should be. Apprenticeship programs are great, but the book knowledge is invariably useless without having the practical experience of doing the work. You need to work somewhere where you can further your on the job education.

I also understand the fear of being laid off and the trepidation over having to seek new employment. My advice: start looking now, even if there are limited opportunities in your immediate area, start looking at a 30 min radius from where you live. If you still don't find any, bump it up to 45 minutes, an hour, and so on. A long commute is a lot easier to deal with then uprooting yourself. And besides, it comes across in your post that you're not entirely convinced that this trade is something you could see yourself doing for the rest of your life. Make that commitment first, then the commitment to move in order to pursue the best opportunities in that career.

Lastly, the fact that you're 31 and only have two years in means nothing. If anything, it's an attribute. You have maturity and reliability on your side, something that the younger guys don't. We have a 52 year old guy at our company that has been an electrician for seven years. I love it when he's on my crew. He's no ball of fire, mind you, but his reliability and attitude can never be called into question. He's happy to be at work every day doing something that he truly enjoys, and, honestly, has a greater thirst for knowledge in our trade them any of the younger guys do, probably because he feels like he has some catching up to do.

hope the advice helps, best of luck
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It's not that I don't want to do this for the rest of my life, but I'm off to a bit of a rocky start with this particular job. It's hard to find extra work now as this is probably the biggest project going on right now. The oil slump has everyone fearing for their jobs.
 
shockme123 said:
It's not that I don't want to do this for the rest of my life, but I'm off to a bit of a rocky start with this particular job. It's hard to find extra work now as this is probably the biggest project going on right now. The oil slump has everyone fearing for their jobs.
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You've gotten some good advice so far. At 31, trust me, you are young! Hang in there if you possibly can. Some day the light may come on and you get a real "Aha!" moment as far as understanding your job and feeling more proficient and confident. And bending conduit well isn't easy. Some guys (like me) have to scrap a lot of it before they are even marginally good. Lastly, if you decide to quit, okay. But get that next source of income lined up first, then give your two weeks notice. Good luck!
 
shockme123 said:
It's not that I don't want to do this for the rest of my life, but I'm off to a bit of a rocky start with this particular job. It's hard to find extra work now as this is probably the biggest project going on right now. The oil slump has everyone fearing for their jobs.
Click to expand...

Look for a solar company. ;) Solar installers are in need almost everywhere.
 
shockme123 said:
I haven't been laid off yet is that I'm on a government subsidy until June of next year that covers 80% of my salary.
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I would think the company will keep you as long as they are getting you cheap and that gives you a few months to figure out what to do. It's not a good situation but still it's better than some others.

On a construction job you should never let people know that you have been working as computer support, tell everyone that you just go out of prison ( for murder ) and they won't pick on you as much. Just jokeing, it takes a little time to get used to the work.
 
My brother in-law started in the trade green at 34 years old. Three years later he went into the union as a second year apprentice.

Did he get razzed a little by journeymen who were 10 years younger? No, he got razzed a LOT. Looked down on, talked to like dirt, made fun of...

I don't know why that sort of nonsense seems appropriate toward someone who's trying to learn a trade.

I never had to endure it, i started at 21 years old and picked up on it fairly easy. But I've seen it.

I'm not sure what the work landscape looks like where you are, but here in KC I would suggest hiring on with a temp agency like Tradesman International. Temps get razzed too, but on a different level
 
shockme123 said:
Given my situation at both work and in my area in general do you think it's worth it to keep going with this trade? Thank you.
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no.

you don't seem to like it, you don't seem to have an affinity for it, and there
are other ways to make a living. what do you like to do? figuring out what that
is, and how to do that is what you have in front of you at this time.

there are many reasons for hazing, not the least that if you are reporting this
accurately, other people are getting laid off, and you are getting kept, due to
a crop subsidy program of sorts.

what would you do if you knew you could not fail?
 
Fulthrotl said:
no.

you don't seem to like it, you don't seem to have an affinity for it, and there
are other ways to make a living...
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In fairness, it's really common for apprentices to have these gripes and that's not necessarily an indication of whether they will ultimately find a spot in the trade they enjoy.

That said, I agree the OP needs to take a serious look at the trade and see if you can imagine doing any aspect as a long term career. If there's a part that interests you, work towards doing that.
 
Been there

Been there

Been there Done that

It gets better... stick with it... get your piece of paper( journeyman card)..

roll with the jobs. you might have to bounce company to company (whoever has the work)

Another thing that helps is to find a supervisor that you can relate to and stick to his crew.

Volunteer for the most difficult job, and do it well, and tell the bullies "that was easy"

Always dress better than the slobs around you (goto goodwill you can find work shirts for cheep), then, when the boss needs someone presentable to work in a "pretty-girl" office , Guess who he chooses?? The grufff slob ,or the polite person?

As for the harassment... stick up for yourself. Banter is a way to combat boredom.
When they quit talking to you it means they 'really don't like you'..

Soon a opportunity will arise, and, you can remove yourself from all the jerks
 
31 is pretty young and at this point in your life you can do anything you want. I'm lucky working for a company with full benefits etc. We have a crew of contractors
doing most of the electrical. I work mostly on controls these days, design work, drawings, and wiring stuff up, some programming. I came from maintenance and
haven't gone through the mill like you are. But I work closely with the contractors and have seen a lot of guys come and go. They are rough with new guys and
harassment is standard protocol. In most (non electrical companies) the foreman wouldn't be able to treat people like the electrical guys do. My advice would be to
learn the theory behind what you're doing. Most of these guys don't really understand some concepts which becomes painfully obvious when we let them get into
wiring controls. Take it with a grain of salt and above all keep a good attitude and do a good job. Work ethic these days is not what it used to be. The thing they
despise most is laziness and bad looking work. Attention to detail is critical. Never pretend to know something you don't. But when you find something you don't know,
then take it upon yourself to learn it. And ask yourself if you really do have a knack or enjoy this work. You should know the answer by now. If you don't have it then
you should look for something else. Maintenance electrician or industrial electrician work might be a better choice if you are good at troubleshooting and working on
equipment.
 
shockme123 said:
I constantly get picked on by my younger journeyman and higher level apprentices and feel that this is hindering me from being better at my work.
Click to expand...

No, it's an attempt to thicken your skin and improve your work. Callouses are earned, they don't just grow one day - both on your hands and on your soul. Neither are a source of shame. Grow some.
 
Welcome to the Forum. The problem you’re dealing with is encountered with almost any beginner on almost any crew USA.

You are not going to change your crew but you can do some things that will make your life easier. If you decide to stick it out, here are a few suggestions. Try to do your best to separate the razzing from constructive criticism. Stay focused on the task you have been given. Don’t let the speed of your education be dictated by waiting to be told or shown everything by someone else. What I mean by this: get a copy of the code and one of Mike’s text books and jump in. If you worked with EMT during the day, then when you go home that night read the article on EMT and relate it the task you did that day.

This Forum and the internet are incredible resources. Maximize their usefulness.

It’s a wonderful trade combing both mental and physical work. Good Luck
 
George Stolz said:
No, it's an attempt to thicken your skin and improve your work. Callouses are earned, they don't just grow one day - both on your hands and on your soul. Neither are a source of shame. Grow some.
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I have to agree. Don't show a reaction to their games. Just keep getting it, if they see it's not getting to you they'll quit.
 
shockme123 said:
Hello and Merry Christmas.

I recently re-started my apprenticeship after being in a computer support position for a while. I was laid off from that do to restructuring and am currently working on a medium scale commercial project with a local contractor. I'm liking the work so far, but it's difficult to get used to the culture, no paid holidays, sick days, vacation, and having to supply some power tools. I constantly get picked on by my younger journeyman and higher level apprentices and feel that this is hindering me from being better at my work. I'm a bit on the slow side when it comes to wiring and bending pipe and that has been pointed out several times. I think the only reason I haven't been laid off yet is that I'm on a government subsidy until June of next year that covers 80% of my salary. There were a few layoffs before Christmas affecting apprentices who are much better at this job than I am. I could get let go any day and feel like there's not much opportunity in this trade for me if that ends up happening. I live in a smaller part of the country with limited opportunities for other construction projects, but with the constant harassment going on around me on a daily basis I have to draw the line between not making it in this field and possibly having to move to another part of the country for better opportunities. I have enough hours to go back to school and complete my 3rd year but there's no guarantee that a job will be there for me upon my return. I know I'm not as good as the journeyman there but I do show up on time and have a good work ethic, unlike some of the other apprentices that the journeyman favors over me. I wish I good get though it but every day I just go home feeling crappy. I currently pay a mortgage on a rental property that I'm living in as well as my tenants, but the housing market has taken a dive here so I wouldn't be able to sell it and move even if I wanted to. I'm 31 years old so I'm a little late for having to start over again. Given my situation at both work and in my area in general do you think it's worth it to keep going with this trade? Thank you.
Click to expand...

You will be slow at first; speed comes from repetition, and being shown how. Your boss may see more potential in you to be a better electrician than the guys he let go.

My boss gets on me about speed as well. I am not fast at trim out, however I made up a great deal of time this past rough-in by having my own drill and extensions so that I could drill the top plates in 12' walls from the ground and not have to move a ladder everywhere (his method). Focus on making sure your work is correct; the speed will come. Also, lighten your load when possible; when I am cutting-in, the only tools I have are a small lightweight razor knife, my strippers, and a bag of Buchannons in my shirt pocket.

Regardless of whether or not you make a career out if this, always have something else lined up if/before you leave this company. You might try a different part of electrical work. Residential repair, additions, and troubleshooting are a fair bit different than new-con commercial.

btw, I didnt start commercial communications wiring until I was 32, did that 4 years, did other things for 4, and have just gotten into residential wiring. 31... you have plenty of time.
 
I'll continue to work until I'm laid off or I go back to school, whichever happens first. I'm also paying dues to the union so I can be kept on a wait list in case this job goes south. I think of it as job insurance.

I'm really interested in maintenance work and learning how PLCs work but the opportunity for a job like that is limited here so I'll definitely have to move.
 
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