Should I move on?

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shockme123 said:
I'll continue to work until I'm laid off or I go back to school, whichever happens first. I'm also paying dues to the union so I can be kept on a wait list in case this job goes south. I think of it as job insurance.

I'm really interested in maintenance work and learning how PLCs work but the opportunity for a job like that is limited here so I'll definitely have to move.
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You would be surprised how many things have PLCs hidden in them. A PLC can replace a square yard of relays.

You can work on it yourself:

http://www.plcsimulator.net/ for instance.

You can google "PLC simulator" for more.

Whenever someone is trying to puzzle out a problem try to hang out and ask how they are thinking it through, they might even answer you. (And your asking may well help them figure it out.)
 
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Plc work can be lucrative. Anymore though it seems any Plc work in our plant is solely done by the machine vendor. I don't know if it's a liability or a proprietary thing but it's extremely rare for us to change or modify a program.


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ADub said:
Plc work can be lucrative. Anymore though it seems any Plc work in our plant is solely done by the machine vendor. I don't know if it's a liability or a proprietary thing but it's extremely rare for us to change or modify a program.


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I have noticed that to be a trend myself, or the machine has it's own sort of unique controller instead of an off the shelf PLC and you either have vendor fix/modify it or replace with their updated component.
 
shockme123 said:
So there's probably no use in learning to program them?
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I'd say that totally depends on what you intend to do. If you plan to end up in the relatively low percentage or electrical workers that do work on them or program them obviously it is important to know about them. If you end up primarily installing conduit, pulling conductors and connecting devices, you may never or very seldom run into the need to know much about programming them.

Or if you have a general thirst for knowledge you may learn about them anyway even if you only ever see limited experiences with them.
 
So I didn't read any of the other posts other than your original and I'll tell you a little story. I was an inspector for about a year and having trouble inside my own department with guys who put in for the job and didn't get it. I went home one day and just told my wife that I was done and I was going to quit and trust me it's takes quite a bit for someone to push me out, but like I said I was done. So I talked to one of the senior inspectors and the advice he gave me was simple and to the point, "don't let the _______ win." I then went and talked to the BO and he said that he promised that things would get better.

Well here I am 25 years later and all of those guys are gone for one reason or another.

Good luck and hang tough.
 
ADub said:
Plc work can be lucrative. Anymore though it seems any Plc work in our plant is solely done by the machine vendor. I don't know if it's a liability or a proprietary thing but it's extremely rare for us to change or modify a program.


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Nothing says you can't work for the vendor.
A local electrical contractor does turnkey PLANTS controlled mostly by PLCs. They design it, install it, commission it, and support it. All for piles of money. Some guys make $100K doing this. (Travel and on site for weeks required.)
 
fmtjfw said:
Nothing says you can't work for the vendor.
A local electrical contractor does turnkey PLANTS controlled mostly by PLCs. They design it, install it, commission it, and support it. All for piles of money. Some guys make $100K doing this. (Travel and on site for weeks required.)
Click to expand...

Yeah but no thanks. I can make that money with the job I have without weeks on the road and spending my career doing the same thing over and over. I like a little Plc stuff once in a while but i like being an electrician better. The vendors can have it as far as I'm concerned.


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shockme123 said:
So there's probably no use in learning to program them?
Click to expand...

You mention you want to get into industrial and instrumentation. That being the case then of course you should learn PLC's.
There are a lot more straight up electricians than there are industrial guys that know controls and instrumentation. I wouldn't
worry about the market getting flooded any time soon.
 
Don't quit a job until you have somewhere else to go, and NEVER stop looking for a better job, no matter how good the one you have is. Also, throw your whole self into the job you have no matter how bad a job it is. If you allow yourself to become complacent or a slacker you are setting yourself up for a nasty fall.

And yes, this is the voice of unpleasant experience speaking. When I got unexpectedly kicked to the curb at 59 with no network and no prospects in the early days of the Great Recession it was a very bad day for me. I have since recovered but it was a long hard slog.
 
fmtjfw said:
You would be surprised how many things have PLCs hidden in them. A PLC can replace a square yard of relays.

You can work on it yourself:

http://www.plcsimulator.net/ for instance.

You can google "PLC simulator" for more.

Whenever someone is trying to puzzle out a problem try to hang out and ask how they are thinking it through, they might even answer you. (And your asking may well help them figure it out.)
Click to expand...

One of my son-in-laws runs maintenance in a large printing plant, is desperate to find guys with PLC experience, same with a lot of industries.

On another note, when I was growing up working in my dad's mechanical contracting biz, I got harangued by the older guys more than the young ones ( was handing dad tools when I was 10 or so), my brother and I were so far ahead of others our age working in the trades that the younger ones were of no concern. But, after the break-in period was over, the old guys started teaching us their skills, that is how I wound up being licensed in multiple trades.
 
The only time to quit is if your stop learning -- I started with "family" and those out there that know the term feel the pain. If you do not like the work find another trade pretty simple.
 
shockme123 said:
I'll continue to work until I'm laid off or I go back to school, whichever happens first. I'm also paying dues to the union so I can be kept on a wait list in case this job goes south. I think of it as job insurance.

I'm really interested in maintenance work and learning how PLCs work but the opportunity for a job like that is limited here so I'll definitely have to move.
Click to expand...

PLC proficiency will get you a good paying job most anywhere. It has always been my edge in seeking employment.

Here's my suggestions for getting some training...

1) The Learning Pit. They have a software PLC simulator that is based on Allen Bradley PLCs, (the Borg of PLCs). You can buy a CD that has the simulator on it and it works great. It's so similar to the Allen Bradley's software (actually Rockwell) you can almost export training programs to one, ... almost. It also has virtual devices to control with it such as an elevator, dual compressors, traffic lights and a virtual PLC. Windows only, no Macs. $46 US (free 15 day evaluation). On the website look for the LogixPro CD key edition.
http://thelearningpit.com/

2) Rockwell's RSLogix is available for free and it contains an emulator. You can also get a cheap MicroLogix PLC to go with it.
http://www.rockwellautomation.com/global/support/plc/micrologix.page

3) Buy an Automation Direct Click PLC (about $80) and download the free programming software (gotta buy the $15 programming cable). For less than $100 you have a real PLC you can mess with at home.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Home/Home

Don't forget to get proficient with Variable Frequency Drives also since PLCs and VFDs go together like soup and a sandwich.

Yaskawa offers some free virtual VFD simulators (and they are excellent). You have to register with Yaskawa to get them but it's painless.
https://www.yaskawa.com/pycprd/products/industrial-ac-drives/software-tools/programming-simulator

As for the motor mouths at work, ignore them. They have peaked but you can go higher.
 
RobertKLR said:
1) The Learning Pit. They have a software PLC simulator that is based on Allen Bradley PLCs, (the Borg of PLCs). You can buy a CD that has the simulator on it and it works great. It's so similar to the Allen Bradley's software (actually Rockwell) you can almost export training programs to one, ... almost. It also has virtual devices to control with it such as an elevator, dual compressors, traffic lights and a virtual PLC. Windows only, no Macs. $46 US (free 15 day evaluation). On the website look for the LogixPro CD key edition.
http://thelearningpit.com/
Click to expand...

The Learning Pit simulator is great for the price. Used to be $30 but $46 is still a good deal. The simulations are great...you don't just make a contact and set an output that turns on a light, you actually program
the simulations some of which are fairly involved. Highly recommended. I wish they had another set of simulations because I thought it was a lot of fun.
 
Aleman said:
The Learning Pit simulator is great for the price. Used to be $30 but $46 is still a good deal. The simulations are great...you don't just make a contact and set an output that turns on a light, you actually program
the simulations some of which are fairly involved. Highly recommended. I wish they had another set of simulations because I thought it was a lot of fun.
Click to expand...

I still use mine for helping to figure out routines I'd like to try.

Another good piece of free software comes from C3 Controls. The software for their Series 900 programmable relay (which is just a poor man's PLC) is really good and has two simulators, one is a virtual model of the relay/PLC. Although it has no math functions it does have logic functions, timers, timed switches, counters, comparators and even text for the relays display plus two analog inputs just like the real relay. I think it would be great for a beginner.

Scroll to the bottom where it says software, then instructions for download and pick the software for "after 2012".

http://www.c3controls.com/products/programmable-relays/resources/
 
ggunn said:
Don't quit a job until you have somewhere else to go, and NEVER stop looking for a better job, no matter how good the one you have is. Also, throw your whole self into the job you have no matter how bad a job it is. If you allow yourself to become complacent or a slacker you are setting yourself up for a nasty fall.

And yes, this is the voice of unpleasant experience speaking. When I got unexpectedly kicked to the curb at 59 with no network and no prospects in the early days of the Great Recession it was a very bad day for me. I have since recovered but it was a long hard slog.
Click to expand...

I'm still having difficulty with what my JW says should be fairly straightforward tasks and his version of "common sense" but that's because I'm constantly being picked on on things that are not electrical related. I've never had to deal with a situation involving having to say not so nice things to people but I have to realize that this is construction and I should throw out every bit of professionalism I had in my previous jobs out the window. My JW has high expectations in making sure that what I do is correct and that it looks nice, but I often find these expectations unrealistic and believe the only reason he's being hard on me is that I'm older and not very sociable. For example, I get pushed around so much with abuse and trying to do a good job that I often forget things the JW is trying to teach me, like the height of receptacle and switch boxes for example, that if he asks me about them and I don't remember then he gets frustrated and takes it out on me. He might be good at his work but he doesn't have much patience in teaching. The fact that I'm left alone to do rough ins is nice because I don't have to deal with him on a consistent basis. I'm still slow and find myself having to go back over things to fix other people's mistakes, and rarely do I ever get anything positive on the work I do correctly.

I will definitely look for other work in the future, but right now with Canada not doing so great nation-wide and the economy relying heavily on oil many long-term projects have been shelved or put on hold. I do have a career goal in mind but it's going to take a long time to finish. I wish I had started this trade earlier in my life because I would be in a lot better position right now as far as moving for work. I'm just a early-level apprentice and my job outlook isn't that great, so as long as I'm still with this employer I will continue to try my best. I constantly have the fear of being laid off and even though I can joke about it it still bothers me. My personality definitely does not fit with this company but there's not much I can do about that now.
 
RobertKLR said:
PLC proficiency will get you a good paying job most anywhere. It has always been my edge in seeking employment.

Here's my suggestions for getting some training...

1) The Learning Pit. They have a software PLC simulator that is based on Allen Bradley PLCs, (the Borg of PLCs). You can buy a CD that has the simulator on it and it works great. It's so similar to the Allen Bradley's software (actually Rockwell) you can almost export training programs to one, ... almost. It also has virtual devices to control with it such as an elevator, dual compressors, traffic lights and a virtual PLC. Windows only, no Macs. $46 US (free 15 day evaluation). On the website look for the LogixPro CD key edition.
http://thelearningpit.com/

2) Rockwell's RSLogix is available for free and it contains an emulator. You can also get a cheap MicroLogix PLC to go with it.
http://www.rockwellautomation.com/global/support/plc/micrologix.page

3) Buy an Automation Direct Click PLC (about $80) and download the free programming software (gotta buy the $15 programming cable). For less than $100 you have a real PLC you can mess with at home.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Home/Home

Don't forget to get proficient with Variable Frequency Drives also since PLCs and VFDs go together like soup and a sandwich.

Yaskawa offers some free virtual VFD simulators (and they are excellent). You have to register with Yaskawa to get them but it's painless.
https://www.yaskawa.com/pycprd/products/industrial-ac-drives/software-tools/programming-simulator

As for the motor mouths at work, ignore them. They have peaked but you can go higher.
Click to expand...

Thank you everyone for your links.
 
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