Side work

JohnE said:
If I had an apprentice advertising for side work, he wouldn't be my apprentice for long. If he was doing a friend/ family/ neighbor thing even getting paid, I'd be fine with it. Granted he'd be doing so illegally, without insurance.

If I had a licensed electrician working for me and advertising for side work, he wouldn't be my electrician for very long either. Especially since I generally offer "unlimited" overtime. Again, some side jobs would be fine for me, but advertising means he's my competition, or is short lived. I've had licensed guys leave me and start their own company on good terms.

The advertising is the deal breaker for me.....
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I don’t like that part either. People are commenting on the post asking how much for a ceiling fan or troubleshooting. These are things he does with me and I teach him how to do right in the same area. I pay more than our local pays apprentices and I offer a commission for selling jobs. Some in my facebook group are suggesting im underpaying and treating the guy like a slave but I think that comes from their experiences rather than this one. It’s a tough deal to teach this trade to have someone become your competitor didn’t the line. One of the worst parts of the trades in my opinion
 
Early in my carer I encouraged employees to do side work, thinking they would learn faster and become more careful.

Then I got a few phone calls from disgruntled customers about things "your guy" did, or asking when he was going to come back to finish.
 
Your employee should not be your competitor. If you don't mind him doing side work you should have an agreement so he's not taking money out of your pocket. My brother in law is a contractor and a few of his guys have their own side hustle but they don't do work in the same state so everyone is happy. This is also beneficial because when my BIL's shop is slow these guys can still make money and not have to quit and then go work for another contractor.
 
kwired said:
The union encouraged this or some people you happened to work with?

Side jobs at residential sites maybe wasn't really competing with your company and they were ok with that?

I don't see a union in general supporting this kind of thing, state or local laws aside it still kind of goes against what I would expect for union rules.
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Instructor at the school.
I've talked to the local hall, they had zero issues with guys running residential side jobs. Just don't touch commercial - they find out, it's trial by combat.
 
Doc13067 said:
It’s a tough deal to teach this trade to have someone become your competitor
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Again I have no issue with someone I taught wanting to go out on their own. I did same thing myself. You aren't automatically qualified to go out on your own and have to learn somewhere. Is a different deal to go out and seek potential clients of your employer while you still working for them. Is also different deal to do small projects you are capable of handling for relatives or close friends. If your boss can't handle that maybe is a sign you should be looking for a different employer anyway, he has too much control issues and something eventually will come up that turns into a big deal between you. Don't sign any non compete clause before you leave. Those are a joke and nothing but a security blanket for the employer that has security issues. If a client wants to hire your former employee instead of you, they aren't interested in you working for them for whatever reason and maybe you need to figure out why that is and correct it. If the main reason is they just happen to be good friends or relatives - it is what it is just move on.
 
NoahsArc said:
Instructor at the school.
I've talked to the local hall, they had zero issues with guys running residential side jobs. Just don't touch commercial - they find out, it's trial by combat.
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Kind of figured that would be the case. A majority of union work tends to be non residential (single family dwellings anyway) so there isn't really much infringement on the union's interests if you do residential side work.
 
NoahsArc said:
Instructor at the school.
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Before running my own business in 2007, my local NECA/IBEW apprenticeship was sponsored by the contractors, with journeyman instructors provided by the local, typically after frozen fear made a JW useless on the job.

This was later diagnosed as some kind of PTSD. After witnessing occupational accidents, some JATC instructor's do well articulating preventative safety measures, but were mostly punitive drill Sergeants for truancy, not legal advisors for side work.

The union that our JATC instructors worked with partnered with residential developers, who's EC's demanded the highest level of performance. Not related to the bargaining agreements, but due to lack of proper insurances, the local IBEW business manager suspended a different JW each week, when caught doing side work.

That precedent resulted in more JW's networking with their peers to secure the required work-experience signatures for State builders licensing, and acquiring the required insurances for their side-work, under their own license.
 
infinity said:
Your employee should not be your competitor. If you don't mind him doing side work you should have an agreement so he's not taking money out of your pocket. My brother in law is a contractor and a few of his guys have their own side hustle but they don't do work in the same state so everyone is happy. This is also beneficial because when my BIL's shop is slow these guys can still make money and not have to quit and then go work for another contractor.
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If you don't mind sifting thru people with different skill sets, temporary employment services can also handle payroll & tax deductions, without expectation of permanent employment. I believe apprenticeships are known for providing a skills advantage for temporary union labor, with occasional bid opportunities from the local.

Temp services may also offer group Workman's Compensation insurance, which avoids becoming a headquarters for side-working trunk slammers that subject everybody to liability, from unlicensed contracting, to real-estate remodels.
 
ramsy said:
That precedent resulted in more JW's networking with their peers to secure the required work-experience signatures for State builders licensing, and acquiring the required insurances for their side-work, under their own license.
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Around here, you cannot start up as a signatory contractor without about $200,000 of work lined up (or you can just pay them out of pocket). I call it the brick wall. Not sure how anybody is supposed to climb over that hurdle without Knowing Someone or having a lucrative contract in hand for a large job or GC. Oddly, the requirement evaporates for subsequent years.

It would be very nice if we could more easily setup shops like that, we might be more competitive in residential markets. But they want to keep the number of ECs to a minimum it seems. Starting out it residential and needing that much work lined up is difficult without an In.
 
NoahsArc said:
Around here, you cannot start up as a signatory contractor without about $200,000 of work lined up (or you can just pay them out of pocket). I call it the brick wall. Not sure how anybody is supposed to climb over that hurdle without Knowing Someone or having a lucrative contract in hand for a large job or GC. Oddly, the requirement evaporates for subsequent years.

It would be very nice if we could more easily setup shops like that, we might be more competitive in residential markets. But they want to keep the number of ECs to a minimum it seems. Starting out it residential and needing that much work lined up is difficult without an In.
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NoahsArc said:
Note: should say net income. Alternatively, $100,000 available to contribute to the union benefits funds if you just want to pay yourself less.
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I take that to mean as a contractor that is also a member of the union?

Seems to me it is not worth belonging to the union if you are a one man show, even if it was a good thing to belong to at one time in your career before then. But then they possibly got you cornered to some extent when you get to where you want some help.
 
The OP is in the Philadelphia area. I believe that in Pennsylvania, only Philadelphia requires an electrical license, so as long as the apprentice stays out of Philly, he's not breaking the law. More concerning is the possible liability, which the OP should discuss with a lawyer. The apprentice should absolutely not be wearing and clothing or be in possession of any item that would associate him with your company while on a side gig.

I for one might have a problem with my apprentice competing with me for work when I'm teaching him the ropes. On the other hand, we know at our company that the alarm guys do a ton of side work, and no one minds because it is almost entirely residential, and that's a market my company has decided to stay away from. I think the OP should set some guidelines in place so everyone clearly knows what the boundaries are.
 
gadfly56 said:
On the other hand, we know at our company that the alarm guys do a ton of side work, and no one minds because it is almost entirely residential, and that's a market my company has decided to stay away from.
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They go after people working without a EC license / bond / insurance here, even home security, was a court case that went on a long time in the state of MA went after 'Xfinity home security' and possibly some other home security companies. Now I think its only wireless security you can do without a contractor license / bond / insurance.
 
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