signs

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dan55

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I have an outdoor sign in front of a new building that is fed with three 120v circuits.
For disconnecting means the sign company has three 20A toggle switches. The inspector won't sign off stating that the sign is a separate structure and that it needs to have a service rated disconnect. any thoughts? ps. the switches are on the sign itself.
 
Re: signs

Barring local amendments...

Article 600 doesn't prohibit a disconnect on the sign itself, nor does it require a service rated disconnect. Indeed, 600.6 specifically uses the word "switch" and just requires it be externally operable. Mounting it on the sign is clearly a good way to meet line of sight requirements.

However, 600.6 says:

"Each sign and outline lighting system, or feeder circuit or branch circuit supplying a sign or outline lighting system, shall be controlled by an externally operable switch or circuit breaker that will open all ungrounded conductors."

This looks to be a very poorly worded sentence.

The "sign and outline..." language seems to indicate signs WITH outline lighting for that case.

The "[Each]...branch circuit supplying a sign or outline...operable switch" language seems to indicate multiple branches supplying a particular non-outline type sign only need a switch per branch and not a combined disconnect that will kill all at once.

It seems to me being ablt to turn the whole thing off in one shot for maintenance would be a good way to go, but this language, as its written, doesn't appear to be requiring it.

It would have been easier to use a small 3R panel to do this...
 
Re: signs

Lets see . . . UH . . . is the sign a separate structure? If it is, wouldn't Article 225 apply? Check out the disconnecting means requirements in Article 225.36 and the provisions in 225.30 . . . HMMM . . . :D
 
Re: signs

That is my question ,should the sign be considered a separate structure . If so then 225 definately does apply and we should have a service rated disconnect.
 
Re: signs

If that sign is a seperate structure, then logically, it follows things like post lights at the bottom of driveways, street lights, etc would be too :roll:
 
Re: signs

Tony,
If that sign is a seperate structure, then logically, it follows things like post lights at the bottom of driveways, street lights, etc would be too
Click to expand...
That is the exact reason that Exception #3 was added to 225.32.
Don
 
Re: signs

OOPS :eek:

Exception No. 4: For poles or similar structures used only for support of signs installed in accordance with Article 600, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be located elsewhere on the premises.
 
Re: signs

What is 225.33(B) saying?

Starts out w/ 2 or 3 single pole switches are ok as disconect if use handle ties or master handle to limit to no more than six operations of the hand.

How does it take 6 operations of the hand with only three switches/cb's?

Answered kinda quick on the run here, so take it easy on me :)
 
Re: signs

225.33(B) is saying there could be more than 6 physical switches if tied together. ex. 12 single pole breakers using 6 handle ties.
 
Re: signs

Dan55: Section90.3 say art.600 supplements or modify the rules of chapters one to four.Therefore the rules in art.225 do not apply here. the inspector can only enforce the rules found in art 600.

I hope this helps

lol Phil c
 
Re: signs

Dan55: Section90.3 say art.600 supplements or modify the rules of chapters one to four. Therefore the rules in art.225 do not apply here. the inspector can only enforce the rules found in art 600.
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Phil, The statement is, "Chapters 1 through 4 apply except as amended by Chapters 5, 6, and 7 for the particular conditions." The way I read that phrase is Article 225 does apply except as amended by Article 600. :D
 
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