Silly Question

Status
Not open for further replies.
2

220wire

Member
I've been away from the resi side of wiring for a while so I am a bit perplexed on the EE's call for 4#6's to a range recep. Is there now a nm cable with 4 #6's in it? Or is it still 3 #6's and a #10 ground? I don't know why the ground would need to be sized the same as the grounded or ungrounded conductors.
 
I'd like to know why an EE needs to get involved with resi wiring.

Unless it's a really high-end home.

6/3 NM is three 6s and a 10 grounding.
 
It's a Davis Bacon job for multi-family housing, so I am guessing that's why there's an EE. Makes my job nice. I don't have to think anymore.:grin:
 
If your range only needed a 30 amp OCPD then by upsizing to #6, 250.122(B) would come into play meaning that your EGC would need to be the same size as the circuit conductors. Having said that it probably has nothing to do with your question. :)
 
My guess would be that the EE has no idea of what is normally used to wire a range or the codes that apply to your situation
 
220wire said:
I've been away from the resi side of wiring for a while so I am a bit perplexed on the EE's call for 4#6's to a range recep. Is there now a nm cable with 4 #6's in it? Or is it still 3 #6's and a #10 ground? I don't know why the ground would need to be sized the same as the grounded or ungrounded conductors.
Click to expand...

Not sure if this will answer your question, but just a tidbit of info .

Just remember that NM (assuming it romex cable and conduit you running) has to be under the 60 degree column for ampacity Table 310.16, NEC 2008 334.80. This would make #6 good for 55 amps. Most ranges, even my own house has a 50 amp breaker, and it is run in cable, so therefore they had to use #6. Hope this helps. ;)

It does sound like the EE doesnt do much residential in my opinion. ;)
 
Last edited:
220wire said:
My issue is with the smaller size ground found typically in nm. The contract drawings show 4 #6's
Click to expand...


Bid it that way, then offer to 'Value Engineer' a lower price by finding other things like this that would allow a savings without compromising safety.
 
davedottcom said:
What's a "Davis Bacon job" ? :-?
Click to expand...
A law requiring that tax-payer funded projects accept no less than the highest price that can be paid for labor. You may have heard that they choose the lowest bidder - but it is really the lowest "qualified bidder" - qualified means you're paying top ducks, and have all of thier paperwork in a neat little row along an ever shifting line. All of the groups of ducks are pretty competitive - but all getting top money - by law... The only competition is in design, specification, managment and contract loop-holes... i.e. getting CO's for the next decade or so - also at top dollar.... I'm putting that as nice as I can....
 
davedottcom said:
What's a "Davis Bacon job" ? :-?
Click to expand...

It is a law that ensures the lowest bidder isn't because they pay their labor the least. That way, the public funds used to pay for the work reflect the true cost, and aren't hiding hidden future costs because the lowest bidder's employees are on food stamps and welfare.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
It is a law that ensures the lowest bidder isn't because they pay their labor the least. That way, the public funds used to pay for the work reflect the true cost, and aren't hiding hidden future costs because the lowest bidder's employees are on food stamps and welfare.
Click to expand...

...a law that ensures the lowest bidder isn't...what? hired?

This is quite a coincidence but I'm about to bid on a job that is a Bacon Davis Job! I had no idea what that meant, and to tell you the truth, I'm still not sure... how would this effect the way I bid the job? Sounds to me like I would want to bid the labor high to get the job??? :confused:
 
davedottcom said:
...a law that ensures the lowest bidder isn't...what? hired?

This is quite a coincidence but I'm about to bid on a job that is a Bacon Davis Job! I had no idea what that meant, and to tell you the truth, I'm still not sure... how would this effect the way I bid the job? Sounds to me like I would want to bid the labor high to get the job??? :confused:
Click to expand...

he explained it, just not written well.

Maybe if it was written:
...a law that ensures the lowest bidder isnt (the lowest) because they pay the lowest labor rates....
 
ty said:
he explained it, just not written well.

Maybe if it was written:
...a law that ensures the lowest bidder isnt (the lowest) because they pay the lowest labor rates....
Click to expand...



I want to understand this because I've never bid work when this was mentioned. If the LOWEST bidder plans on using the same materials, same manhours, same wiring methods, same plans, but he pays his guys $1 an less than the second bidder, what does that matter? And what happens then?
 
mcclary's electrical said:
I want to understand this because I've never bid work when this was mentioned. If the LOWEST bidder plans on using the same materials, same manhours, same wiring methods, same plans, but he pays his guys $1 an less than the second bidder, what does that matter? And what happens then?
Click to expand...

Then he can get into trouble. He must pay them the prevailing wage per the Contract. If this is found out before the bid, he'll probably be disqualified.
 
davedottcom said:
...a law that ensures the lowest bidder isn't...what? hired?

This is quite a coincidence but I'm about to bid on a job that is a Bacon Davis Job! I had no idea what that meant, and to tell you the truth, I'm still not sure... how would this effect the way I bid the job? Sounds to me like I would want to bid the labor high to get the job??? :confused:
Click to expand...

You want to bid the labor at local prevailing wages including H&W. For the duration of the job you must pay that to every employee. If you utilize helpers or anyone other than journeymen, they must be enrolled in a certified apprenticeship program, otherwise you must pay everyone journeyman wages and bennies.

The job will probably require a bond and a certified payroll.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top