Single ground wire for receptacle

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rookie4now

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I have seen where people use a separate ground wire and run it to a water pipe to ground a previously ungrounded receptacle. This seems fine to me, but I was thinking...Isn't it a code violation to run THHN by itself? If not, why couldn't you run THHN for power and not put it in conduit? My guess is that it it treated differenly when it is just a ground wire, but I couldn't find the appropriate section of the NEC.

If you know the section that applies can you let me know. As a side note, this is probably my biggest frustration as a rookie...trying to figure out where something is in the NEC. What does everyone else do? Does it just take years of practice?

Thank you
 
It's okay to pick up a ground from a water pipe under the CEC, but not the NEC. Single grounds need to go to the panel. Trying to find code section now.... (by the way, I don't do this. If you're fishing, might was well fish a new romex).
 
This is done here a lot because you can easily run a piece of THHN, but without removing the metal box, which is generally strapped to the face of a stud, you cannot pull a new romex run.
 
rookie4now said:
This is done here a lot because you can easily run a piece of THHN, but without removing the metal box, which is generally strapped to the face of a stud, you cannot pull a new romex run.
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Hmmmm.... oh boy. You sure could learn a lot about old work then. If you ever want to move to central PA, I can show you how I do that every day.
 
NEC 300.3(B)(2) Grounding and bonding conductors in accordance with NEC 250.130(C)
 
mdshunk said:
Hmmmm.... oh boy. You sure could learn a lot about old work then. If you ever want to move to central PA, I can show you how I do that every day.
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Well, I'm definately here to learn. What I see often is that the K&T cannot be used as a pull because it is tied off below the box. If the old loom is run in from the bottom and you can remove it then, yes, no problem. Or, obviously if you remove plaster and fish a wire up, it is no problem. My original post wasn't saying that it couldn't be done, I was asking why (if) it is code to run a single THHN.
 
"What does everyone else do? Does it just take years of practice?'
I recommend Mike Holts Understanding the NEC Vol 1 and 2.
And the electric version of the NEC is a great tool for searching.
Firms Fast Finder is a good tool to find what you are looking for, the NEC index is not so hot.
Mike Holt has a NEC index he sent out it was about 25 pages. PM me w/ email and if I have a copy I'll send one,or some one may have a link to it.
After a while I know about where it is.
The forum helps a lot.
I like your attitude to learn, you will live long and prosper as an electrician.
 
I have a copy of the NEC that's usually lying on my bed next to / along with whatever else I'm reading. Which right now is "Lies My Teacher Told Me". I read either (or both!) to put me to sleep :)

But seriously, read it and eventually it starts to soak into your head. And after a while, even the index starts to seem friendly (dittos to whoever said the index isn't all that hot).
 
Rookie, what you're doing is allowed, provided the water pipe is being used as a grounding electrode by the electrical system. The grounding electrode is used as a way to get back to the service neutral, by the Grounding Electrode Conductor connected to it. Note that you're not looking for the connection to the earth, your goal is to be connected to the neutral of the service, eventually.

Your options are described in 250.130(C), and 406.3(D).

I'm short on time, but essentially, somewhere we are required to use Chapter 3 wiring methods. I understand your question, you'd like to see the actual code that requires us to do so. For now, I'd say the section that closely fits the bill I can find is 300.2(A).

Wiring methods specified in Chapter 3 shall be used for 600 volts, nominal, or less where not specifically limited in some section of Chapter 3.
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georgestolz said:
Rookie, what you're doing is allowed, provided the water pipe is being used as a grounding electrode by the electrical system.
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Pardon? Only the first 5 feet of water line is grounding electrode. The rest is just pipe.

250.130.C
(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
 
georgestolz said:
Did I say something to the contrary?
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It sounded to me like you where saying going to anywhere on the water piping system was OK.


georgestolz said:
Rookie, what you're doing is allowed, provided the water pipe is being used as a grounding electrode by the electrical system.
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