Sizing an old machine not installed properly

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Robbierobdude

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Electrical contractor
We were working in an old factory and stumbled upon this issue we need to correct. There is an old lathe (around 1910) with no name plate or information. It was fed from this old panel with #8 wire, where it is just taped onto the buss bar with no fusing or overload protection on it. The wires just go directly in the unit and we do not see any more protection. We will remove an unused circuit to install this properly in the panel. My concern is sizing this properly. How do I know what amperage to protect this unit at and I feel it should also have a motor starter installed on it.

What is the best way to find out the amperage and size of the motor overloads? I don't think I can post photos on this form as I wish you can see this place. This factory is from the late 1800s and nothing has changed.
 
Use your ammeter... There may be schematics and info in the term cover.
Word to the wise... Do not change polarity.
I'd also have the owner make a cut to load the motor...
 
Robbierobdude said:
We were working in an old factory and stumbled upon this issue we need to correct. There is an old lathe (around 1910) with no name plate or information. It was fed from this old panel with #8 wire, where it is just taped onto the buss bar with no fusing or overload protection on it. The wires just go directly in the unit and we do not see any more protection. We will remove an unused circuit to install this properly in the panel. My concern is sizing this properly. How do I know what amperage to protect this unit at and I feel it should also have a motor starter installed on it.

What is the best way to find out the amperage and size of the motor overloads? I don't think I can post photos on this form as I wish you can see this place. This factory is from the late 1800s and nothing has changed.
Click to expand...
sometimes spelling matters..."taped"? or "tapped"?
...it is just taped onto the buss bar...
 
Just be aware that motors of that vintage are typically significantly larger in size for a given horsepower than are modern motors. And so use measured currents like rambojoe mentioned instead of guessing based on physical characteristics.
 
synchro said:
Just be aware that motors of that vintage are typically significantly larger in size for a given horsepower than are modern motors. And so use measured currents like rambojoe mentioned instead of guessing based on physical characteristics.
Click to expand...
Robbierobdude said:
Tapped (That does make a huge difference)
Robbierobdude said:
We were working in an old factory and stumbled upon this issue we need to correct. There is an old lathe (around 1910) with no name plate or information. It was fed from this old panel with #8 wire, where it is just taped onto the buss bar with no fusing or overload protection on it. The wires just go directly in the unit and we do not see any more protection. We will remove an unused circuit to install this properly in the panel. My concern is sizing this properly. How do I know what amperage to protect this unit at and I feel it should also have a motor starter installed on it.

What is the best way to find out the amperage and size of the motor overloads? I don't think I can post photos on this form as I wish you can see this place. This factory is from the late 1800s and nothing has changed.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 

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synchro said:
Just be aware that motors of that vintage are typically significantly larger in size for a given horsepower than are modern motors. And so use measured currents like rambojoe mentioned instead of guessing based on physical characteristics.
Click to expand...
They also tend to have greater torque for a given HP.

Seeing the photo, that looks very much like the Axelson lathe in one of the shops (ours has a 12'? bed and a 20-ishHP 480v motor, I can check that tomorrow). It also doesn't look like 1910 vintage but more like WW2.
 
It looks like a Monarch lathe. But as zbang mentioned, from mid 20th century not early in the century.


large-used-18-5-x-78-monarch-toolmakers-60-engine-lathe-w-digital-readouts.jpg


https://www.mohawkmachinery.com/lis...toolmakers-60-engine-lathe-w-digital-readouts
 
rambojoe said:
Is one of those discos smooshed against the panel for the lathe?
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Good observation, we thought the same thing. But the wires turn down to the bottom of the panel and then pipe directly to the LB on the lathe and go right in. They had to switch the main breaker to the building to work on the lathe to change out a part.
 
zbang said:
Looks like it to me. And looking more closely at the photo, I'm sure that's an Axelson (you can look up the serial numbers online) . What's on the ratings plate there? From the bed size you can probably figure out the motor size.
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The rating plate was illegible. The lathe was dirty and I don't have much experience with working on them. From the picture Synchro provided, that looks exactly like it.
 
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