Sizing Stove Circuit which info correct?

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Cletis

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Do you go by the paper manual that came with stove or nameplate on stove/240V or neither ??

Ex.

Paper manual said 40 amps

Nameplate said 13.3kva (55 amps)

Guessing a clamp meter with stove cranked will be around 37-45 amps but unknown at present time

Which one you go by?
 
DBoone said:
Which one do you go by?

split the difference?
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I just ran a 6/3 copper nm on a 50 amp breaker and called it a day as I'm sure it will be fine, but just would like to know what is up with all this conflicting info
 
Cletis said:
I just ran a 6/3 copper nm on a 50 amp breaker and called it a day as I'm sure it will be fine, but just would like to know what is up with all this conflicting info
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The range is rated 13.3kW. Per 220.55, the range has a demand load of 8.4kW which is 35A. Per 210.19, 40A is the minimum branch circuit size for a range with a rating of 8.75kW or greater.
 
david luchini said:
The range is rated 13.3kW. Per 220.55, the range has a demand load of 8.4kW which is 35A. Per 210.19, 40A is the minimum branch circuit size for a range with a rating of 8.75kW or greater.
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Then what does 13.3 kW rated mean exactly ? So, it will never approach 13.3kW ever full blast at Thanksgiving??
 
david luchini said:
13.3kW would be the sum of all the elements. I can't imagine it would ever approach 13.3kW in normal use.
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Reason is I was talking with owner about it. He said at thanksgiving they are cooking turkey and all elements may be at full blast for short periods so I"m just looking for worst case scenario. When I"m around a stove next and remember I'll put my ammeter on and crank it and see how close it comes to rated then I guess
 
I thought nameplate trumped NEC. I have notice this on many ranges. For calculations and for Ranges without the nameplate amps given then you can use the table.

I have a Bosch dual fuel-- gas cooktop and electric oven (one unit), Nameplate was 50 amps.... how ridiculous..but I ran a #6
 
Cletis said:
Then what does 13.3 kW rated mean exactly ? So, it will never approach 13.3kW ever full blast at Thanksgiving??
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13.3kw or 50A on #8 would operate for some time @ 75c, before a 40A thermal trip curve activates the 40A trip mechanism.
 
Anytime I put in a stove circuit now, even if putting in a gas circuit, I actually run a fifty amp service into place and then do what I need to when time comes to install... because I can always wire it up as a 15 or 20 amp outlet and breaker with a spacer beside it in the box by using a mud plate sized for that, and the wires are there to change back to the fifty amp outlet and breaker if they go Back to electric of any size... just easier to pull the wires once. After all.. is the fifty amp wire, once run, reall going to be any worry running fifteen or twenty amps? Know many will say this is wrong to do but when room in conduit is only so much, do I run four different sizes for one spot???
or just make sure all four wires are grouped in breaker panel and in outlet and tap as needed for unit installed? I just find it easier to wire and size as if a fifty amp stove is going in.. rather than assume now that they will be running propane and no electricity needed. But I deal with concrete buildings so basically need to plan out services and such six months in advance.. too hard to change later
 
Ranges have t-stats that control the elements and you would never or rarely see the oven and all the burners on high at the same time.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I thought nameplate trumped NEC. I have notice this on many ranges. For calculations and for Ranges without the nameplate amps given then you can use the table.

I have a Bosch dual fuel-- gas cooktop and electric oven (one unit), Nameplate was 50 amps.... how ridiculous..but I ran a #6
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Dennis do you have a code reference? Note #4 to the table states that you can use the nameplate and the table but it doesn't say that you would need to use a rated ampacity on the nameplate.

220.55 Note 4. Branch-Circuit Load. It shall be permissible to calculate the branch-circuit load for one range in accordance with Table 220.55. The branch circuit load for one wall-mounted oven or one counter-mounted cooking unit shall be the nameplate rating of the appliance. The branch-circuit load for a counter-mounted cooking unit and not more than two wall-mounted ovens, all supplied from a single branch circuit and located in the same room, shall be calculated by adding the nameplate rating of the individual appliances and treating this total as equivalent to one range.
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infinity said:
Dennis do you have a code reference? Note #4 to the table states that you can use the nameplate and the table but it doesn't say that you would need to use a rated ampacity on the nameplate.
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Note 4 does not say that you use the nameplate for a range. It states to use the table for a range. It aso says to use the nameplate for single oven or cooktop.

My point is the nec states many things that we can do but the manufacturer has the ultimate say. If the nameplate says 50 amps then IMO, we have to use 50 amp circuit to wire it using the manufacturers spec. I hate the rule because the manufacturer is just using the actual wattage not the NEC

Where does the NEC state that we don't have to use the manufacturers nameplate? We can't bypass the nameplate on a/c units.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Note 4 does not say that you use the nameplate for a range. It states to use the table for a range. It aso says to use the nameplate for single oven or cooktop.

My point is the nec states many things that we can do but the manufacturer has the ultimate say. If the nameplate says 50 amps then IMO, we have to use 50 amp circuit to wire it using the manufacturers spec. I hate the rule because the manufacturer is just using the actual wattage not the NEC

Where does the NEC state that we don't have to use the manufacturers nameplate? We can't bypass the nameplate on a/c units.
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The way I read it note 4 tells you can use the table and the nameplate rating of the appliance. The table only lists KW values not ampacities so when you use the table you use the nameplate KW rating, the listed ampacity only the appliance is irrelevant.
 
infinity said:
The way I read it note 4 tells you can use the table and the nameplate rating of the appliance. The table only lists KW values not ampacities so when you use the table you use the nameplate KW rating, the listed ampacity only the appliance is irrelevant.
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You use the namplate of a range to calculate the wattage by using the table. Single oven and single cooktops do no use the table is my point. It doesn't matter what the NEC states anyway. If the range is labelled 50 amps then IMO we are required to do that. Do I always check--Nope

Why would the amp req. by the manufacture not matter?
 
The table takes into account the demand factor (in fact it say Demand Factor at the top of the table) so even if you looked at a ampere rating on an appliance you could still use a lower ampacity to size the branch circuit.
 
infinity said:
The table takes into account the demand factor (in fact it say Demand Factor at the top of the table) so even if you looked at a ampere rating on an appliance you could still use a lower ampacity to size the branch circuit.
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Trevor, I know all this. I am just saying the NEC states we can do it but if the manufacturer says something else don't we have to follow their specs. It did say 55 amps. If it just said 13.3kw I would have no argument.

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be
installed and used in accordance with any instructions included
in the listing or labeling.
Click to expand...
 
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