Skill versus production

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LarryFine said:
A big difference, though, is these devices use positive insulation displacement and four points of contact with each conductor, whereas device push-ins use only spring pressure and two contact points.
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That's a good point !

I am going to find out what NFPA committee approved this device and the documentation they had to approve it.
 
electrofelon said:
How did we got on these in wall spices again??:unsure:🤣
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Sheer luck. :sneaky:

I have no problem with them. I've used the tap kits to add a TV receptacle to an existing circuit.

And, the splice kits for relocating bottom-fed kitchen receptacles to under the upper cabinets.
 
James L said:
5-1/2 hours including a 2 hour parts/lunch trip.
He took 14 hours on the one he did. I just wanted to make sure that my 3-1/2 hours estimate was accurate.

I didn't mention it to him.
He had almost all the work done in the finished areas, so I reworked a temp wire to a keyless.

We got wrapped up and cleaned up at 3:00
Still later than I had projected, but faster than the last few days.

I think some patience is in order.
I was just starting to freak out, thinking how I'm paying more than I'm charging 😬
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They did some random drug testing here and we lost a few people months back, then we lost more people when our competitor started offering cash hiring bonuses.
From what I heard about the hiring interviews most were either in rehab, visibly high, late, rude, got bad references, asking for too much money or just plain incompetent.
Then the bosses spent all the money they should be giving me as a retention bonus on these on-line hiring recruitment 'services' that know nothing about the trades and are just gimmicks.

I finally called a near by tradeschool and the director sent us this 20 something woman I have had for the past 3 months, she is in her 4th year of taking the night classes but really only has 2 years field experience, and not anything much useful in residential.
Things pretty much slowed down to a crawl, I have had many 3- 4 hour jobs take all day, but she is ontime, sober and in good physical health.
I know were loosing money on her, and she will ask the same questions over and over, but she is willing to take time off the clock to practice and lean with the tools, I sent her home with some conduit benders and scrap 1/2" and she spent a weekend with it. Then I gave her a old panel and a K/O set so she could practice making K/O's.
She recently has gotten better but just messed up a rough-in pretty bad 12/3 to the dryer etc.
Its annoying and frustrating, but she did fix the rough-in off the clock, worked till 7pm so it could still be inspected the next day.
 
I would never fix nothing off the clock it’s the Forman or supervisor job to make sure things are being done right. I used to work for a private company I got paid $23 an hour as a journeyman I asked for a raise and the boss told me journey man are dime a dozen you could leave and I could get another one tomorrow You’re no good to me unless you could run a big job with ten or so guys under you and that job make profit so I left that company and I joined the union I went from $23 an hour to $48 an hour overnight it was the best thing I ever did I really love working for the IBEW. When I worked for a private company i used to be on the job teaching guys that were cousins of supervisors how to do make or Bend conduit And these guys were getting paid more than me but it’s because who they knew in the company or who they where related to they were making more than me favoritism. When the boss would give you a raise he used to tell you don’t talk about your pay with anyone I don’t want other people coming in the office and asking me for a raise because you got one. In the union we all get raises at the same time there’s a base minimum rate that we all make depending on what level of apprentice you are or if you’re a journeyman the company you work for could always choose to pay you over that but never under so how do they make money if they pay everyone the same and so much ? by having skilled workers skill overproduction education is free they’re constantly offering classes I just took one the other day by somebody who works for Eaton the class was on ocpd. I feel when I work for private companies there be a ton of guys on a job trying to get it done my experience in the union you have a lot less guys yet in that same size job done because their skill is better And I’m not trying to knock private companies that’s how I started out. I work for one union shop I was the foreman they gave me one journeyman and like three or four apprentices like first year apprentices because they were cheaper the guys were really green but I would go into one room with them and I would be telling them exactly what to do like if I was doing it and they would be learning hands-on experience and I would be right there watching make sure the job is getting done right if I walked away from them I would have to go back and check what they did to make sure they didn’t make mistakes because I knew they were going to So if you do have somebody very new just check their work and you’ll be all right


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And I mean no disrespect to anybody who works for a private company or owns their own private company that’s just my experience as a worker the unions been the best for me but I have lots of friends that work for private companies and they love it they don’t want to go to the union and I started out with private companies. started out with an alarm company went to residential company and then a commercial company and then to the union and I do commercial, but maybe one day I’ll get my C 10 license and open my own company maybe it might be private maybe union I don’t even know and I got lotta respect for anybody who owns there own company the stress level on that must be crazy


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Hitschamp said:
And I mean no disrespect to anybody who works for a private company or owns their own private company that’s just my experience as a worker the unions been the best for me but I have lots of friends that work for private companies and they love it they don’t want to go to the union and I started out with private companies. started out with an alarm company went to residential company and then a commercial company and then to the union and I do commercial, but maybe one day I’ll get my C 10 license and open my own company maybe it might be private maybe union I don’t even know and I got lotta respect for anybody who owns there own company the stress level on that must be crazy


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I went through the IBEW Local 11 apprenticeship in 1974, you are the first union guy that I have every seen posting here !
 
Lol nice I worked for local 11 for three years loved it now I’m working for local 952 closer to home. Yea i noticed there not too much talk about the union in here but it’s all good I’ve been on both sides. I’ve looked at Mike holt videos since I started to help educate myself Once I saw that there was a Mike holt form I joined it everybody’s on here is really helpful and entertaining lol


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There are several union guys who post on here.
The whole union vs non-union (or anti-union 🤣) issue is kinda taboo around here so it doesn't get mentioned much. It can get too heated and political

I've noticed that quality and ethics are either within a person or not, whether he's in the brotherhood or not.
 
I agree with you James quality and ethics are within a person and has nothing to do with the what side of the union your on I just mentioned the union because I read Gene6 post about everything that he was going through at his company and I could relate I’ve been there I just feel like I’ve got away from lotta the gimmicks since I join the union Because they have random drug testing as a condition of being a union member and there pay is open for everybody to see but I’m not trying to recruit anybody here i’m just stating my experiences but I could care less what side somebody wants to work for
 
gene6 said:
They did some random drug testing here and we lost a few people months back, then we lost more people when our competitor started offering cash hiring bonuses.
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I worked at a shop back in the 90s
They put it up to a company vote if we wanted random drug testing.🙄

I was the only one who voted yes.
I felt like I was in a union that day 😂😂
Everybody was mad at me for voting yes 😂😂

We went through the big hiring bonus trick, too.
In 2000-2001
Lots of guys left because a guy with 4 years was getting hired on at the same rate of a guy with 8-12 years.

I left then, too.
I was like umm, I been with this one company longer than these guys been in the trade

gene6 said:
I finally called a near by tradeschool and the director sent us this 20 something woman I have had for the past 3 months, she is in her 4th year of taking the night classes but really only has 2 years field experience, and not anything much useful in residential.
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I've seen that, too.
I have a picture of a really snazzy stapling job she did 🙄
gene6 said:
Things pretty much slowed down to a crawl, I have had many 3- 4 hour jobs take all day, but she is ontime, sober and in good physical health.
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My guy is 58 years old, seems fit.
I think he's just been at a snail's pace for too long
gene6 said:
I know were loosing money on her, and she will ask the same questions over and over
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I'm losing money on my guy.
But I give him credit. He does the work right.
I never regret leaving him by himself, except that I'll pay him $300 to do a job I'm getting paid $275
gene6 said:
but she is willing to take time off the clock to practice and lean with the tools, I sent her home with some conduit benders and scrap 1/2" and she spent a weekend with it. Then I gave her a old panel and a K/O set so she could practice making K/O's.
She recently has gotten better but just messed up a rough-in pretty bad 12/3 to the dryer etc.
Its annoying and frustrating, but she did fix the rough-in off the clock, worked till 7pm so it could still be inspected the next day.
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That's a real asset
But I don't expect anyone to work for free.

I still have some pondering to do about my guy
I don't have the financial girth to lose money on him for a whole year
 
I agree ! ... Whether you are union or not, doesn't make you more or less qualified. Also, whether you're from California or somewhere else. Mike Holt's forum is definitely a great place to learn, which I have been doing since 2003.
 
James L said:
I worked at a shop back in the 90s
They put it up to a company vote if we wanted random drug testing.

I was the only one who voted yes.
I felt like I was in a union that day
Everybody was mad at me for voting yes

We went through the big hiring bonus trick, too.
In 2000-2001
Lots of guys left because a guy with 4 years was getting hired on at the same rate of a guy with 8-12 years.

I left then, too.
I was like umm, I been with this one company longer than these guys been in the trade


I've seen that, too.
I have a picture of a really snazzy stapling job she did

My guy is 58 years old, seems fit.
I think he's just been at a snail's pace for too long

I'm losing money on my guy.
But I give him credit. He does the work right.
I never regret leaving him by himself, except that I'll pay him $300 to do a job I'm getting paid $275

That's a real asset
But I don't expect anyone to work for free.

I still have some pondering to do about my guy
I don't have the financial girth to lose money on him for a whole year
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Omg lmao that is too funny I’m dead
 
Hitschamp said:
I would never fix nothing off the clock it’s the Forman or supervisor job to make sure things are being done right.
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That's actually where I got the idea, years ago when I worked under a IBEW agreement there was a section they had enlarged and printed out for the door of our site trailer that was titled "Safe workmanlike Installations" it stated "Workman shall install all electrical work in a safe workmanlike manner and in accordance with applicable code rules and contract specifications " and had a following paragraph that stated " Journeyman shall be required to make necessary corrections of code violations for which they are responsible, on their own time"
I am not sure if its still in the union agreements, but that foreman made a drill sergeant look like a kindergarten teacher.
I would literally see that every day when I went to clock in.
 
@gene6 ; wow holy no it’s not like that anymore but I believe it I’ve heard story’s I had Forman that been in the union 20 + years that used to crack jokes about you getting OT for fixing your mistakes aka your OWN TIME. I’m going to look in Constitution and see if it’s still in there you got me wondering now
 
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