Sleaving SER in PVC

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SE contains conductors that are rated for use in wet locations (XHHW). There is no reason why is cannot be installed underground.

I personally wouldn't install SER or SEU cable in conduit, but I wouldn't fault someone else for doing it or call it a code violation.
 
iwire

i couldn't resist

peter

check the UL white book, SE cable is listed for aboveground use only
 
mpd said:
check the UL white book, SE cable is listed for aboveground use only
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Fair enough.

Regardless, I don't see the safety hazard if one were to install a cable with wet rate conductors to be installed underground.
 
iwire

I think the last debate on this dennis talked to a rep from southwire who told him the cable is not designed for underground
 
peter

I thought the question was can you install SER underground, I say no it violates the listing of the cable, also look at 338 (B) (4)
 
mpd said:
iwire

I think the last debate on this dennis talked to a rep from southwire who told him the cable is not designed for underground
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Oh, as long as someone talked to salesman all my doubts are put aside. :grin:

I bet that same rep would say SER is not designed for installation in a raceway at all.....even though it is allowed.
 
Well, since this thread already has burst into flames, I might as well add a small note:

I think we all lose sight of the fact that the terms "aboveground" and "underground," at least as they appear to me, are not mutually exclusive in the eyes of the NEC. People seem to think that "underground" means "underground and everywhere else" (as if it is some sort of super-cable), but when "designed for aboveground" seems to preclude usage elsewhere. (NOTE: I am not talking about "direct burial"; that term has nothing to do with this)

Example:

Type UF cable (paraphrasing) is designed for undergound use [and direct burial]. This does not prohibit its use aboveground (or even "indoors", though this term is not relevant either).

Type SE cable is designed for aboveground use. I do not think this precludes it from being used in underground. All it means is that the cable was designed with this particular location in mind a la UF.


This kind of goes back to Bob's argument in the old thread about the fact that THWN is not designed for "underground" use, yet its widespread (legal) use underground is undeniable.
 
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but UF wire is permitted to be installed as NM, SE cable is not permitted to be installed underground
 
mpd said:
but UF wire is permitted to be installed as NM, SE cable is not permitted to be installed underground
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As far as UF qua NM, I'll accede to that.

By the way, in my previous post I was searching for a word that I couldn't think of, and that word is "suitable." I meant to indicate that I believe both NEC and UL state that SE is "suitable" for aboveground, bolstering my point about the fact that it is not exclusively for aboveground. Sort of like the "all hens are chickens, but not all chickens are hens" form of logic.

Before continuing any further, I must state that I don't think the SE-underground debate can really be settled on this forum, and I shouldn't have started getting into it. So much has been written so many times, and I don't think there are too many more ways to phrase it. I'll now _try_ to bow out of this before it gets redundant (if I can hold myself back ;)
 
lordofpi said:
I don't think the SE-underground debate can really be settled on this forum,
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That I whole heartedly agree with.

Of course that will not stop me from running SER underground in raceway when the need arises, which for me is always running feeders to temp job site trailers. :cool:
 
For the purpose of this argument, I feel that installing SE cable underground in PVC is not a violation of the NEC or UL listing.

But the 2008 NEC clears it up nicely: Uses not permitted: 338.12 A(2) "Underground with or without a raceway".
 
iwire said:
Oh, as long as someone talked to salesman all my doubts are put aside. :grin:

I bet that same rep would say SER is not designed for installation in a raceway at all.....even though it is allowed.
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Just for the record it wasn't just a salesman but a representative of the company who explain how this issue was discussed and debated for a long time. He explained that the soil conditions would eventually get into the conduit and potentially break down the bare aluminum.

Now it is one thing to use this as a temp. for a job site but it is another thing to encourage others to do it on a permanent basis.

Since the 2008 NEC has made it clear it surprises me that this does not end the argument. Perhaps the verbiage is lacking in the NEC 2005 but I think it is short sited to encourage this type of install.

Okay-- attack...
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Okay-- attack...
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Dennis, it is nothing personal, I just don't listen to hearsay from any source.

You say the man was a company rep. He may well have said that and be one as well.

What does that really mean?


So for me the fact that you heard this man say something and have passed on to us what you feel he was trying to convey to those present has little influence.

BELIEVE me, I am in no way saying you are throwing us a line of bull.

But it is a fact that if you ask ten people what the person addressing them said you will get different answers.

BTW, what is the change in 2008 you mentioned?

I will not have the 2008 till Jan when the MA amendment version hits the streets.
 
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