Sleaving SER in PVC

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iwire said:
Yes, that pretty much shuts me up. :grin:
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Yeah, here here. I've had my '08 sitting right beside me the whole time and never bothered to see if this was changed. Well, I guess I was wrong, the debate can be settled ;)

One final question, though, SE is or is not permitted in raceway aboveground and indoors? This kind of became part of the debate before...
 
lordofpi said:
One final question, though, SE is or is not permitted in raceway aboveground and indoors? This kind of became part of the debate before...
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You just can't let it rest can you.;)

In my opinion if the fill capacity of the conduit is observed there should be no issue, however, I cannot imagine why someone would spend extra money to do this. If it is a sleeve to protect the wire I can understand but an entire run with se cable in it seems absurd.
 
Well, I think it always came down to the fact that you could not secure the cable in accordance with its respective NEC article if you ran in raceway.

By the way, even though I argued that SE was permissible underground, I never would have done an install that way either--even before the 2008 change. I just like to know and get to the bottom of what the final word is in order to advise others correctly.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
In my opinion if the fill capacity of the conduit is observed there should be no issue, however, I cannot imagine why someone would spend extra money to do this. If it is a sleeve to protect the wire I can understand but an entire run with se cable in it seems absurd.
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In the mid '90's we would buy 125' rolls of SE cable. We would often use them for residential services with PVC risers for 2 reasons. 1. It was actually cheaper than buying the individual conductors. 2. We didn't have to stock both cable and the conductors.

I don't do it that way any more, but it made sense then.
 
lordofpi said:
Well, I think it always came down to the fact that you could not secure the cable in accordance with its respective NEC article if you ran in raceway.
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Whoa there buddy, you sure are hitting all possibilities. :)

I have always found the 'you can't secure it' argument weak.

Would you require a support within 12" of a NM connector inside a panel?

No of course not because the panel protects and supports it.

I would also point out XXX.22 of each raceway article says 'cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use is not prohibited by the respective code articles'.

I can not find anything in 338 or 334 saying NM or SE is prohibited from a raceway. :)
 
Hehe, I know I'm driving it home, but I just want it so that we never have to have this discussion again. We just use links ;) (that theory never does seem to stand the test of time, though).

Anyhow, yes, the securing argument is weak, but it exists nonetheless. I don't have 2005 by my side, but a quick thumb-through of the 2008 NEC seems to put it to rest:

334.30 (NM, NMC, NMS cable):

Securing and supporting Non-metallic sheathed cable.... Sections of cable protected from physical damage by raceway shall not be required to be secured within the raceway.
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Under the section pertaining to Type SE and Type USE cable assemblies, I really don't see any requirement for securing or support at all, so there goes that one. Are we there yet? ;)
 
lordofpi said:
Under the section pertaining to Type SE and Type USE cable assemblies, I really don't see any requirement for securing or support at all, so there goes that one. Are we there yet? ;)
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It is there-- read art. 338.10(B)(4)(a)
 
lordofpi said:
Hehe, I know I'm driving it home, but I just want it so that we never have to have this discussion again.
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Let me get back up off the floor from falling off my chair. :grin:


(that theory never does seem to stand the test of time, though).
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Nope. :D

Anyhow, yes, the securing argument is weak, but it exists nonetheless.
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Then it applies in panels as well.


Under the section pertaining to Type SE and Type USE cable assemblies, I really don't see any requirement for securing or support at all,
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338.10(B)(4) tells us to follow the rules for NM when using SE for feeders or branch circuits. :)
 
Well, how about that, the 2008 answered a question for us. There may be a light at the end of the tunnel after all. :cool:

Now, we can say with a clear and steady voice with confidence, "The 2008 NEC forbids SER from underground installations, even inside raceways." ;)
 
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