Sleep Lab emergency power at beds

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jamism

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Hello Everyone. I am currently working on a Sleep Lab project where there will be patient sleeping beds. Patients come in during night time hours and are monitored remotely during their sleep for oxygen levels and other things.

Per section 517-18 sleeping beds should have receptacles powered from both normal and emergency power. I am questioning whether or not this type of sleeping bed is the same type as in section 517-18. I know that exception 2 under 517-18 and 517-10(b)(2) mentions sleeping beds in nursing homes and limited care facilities are exempt from this requirement, but is a sleeping bed in this sleep lab exempt from having emergency power.

Thanks
 
I would not say the sleeping beds are "exempt." Instead, I would say that no aspect of article 517 applies to the lab.

I have undergone that type of ?sleep study.? There is no ?care? being given to the ?study subject,? and I think it improper to describe the person as a ?patient.? No doctors or nurses are involved in the process; the studies are run by technicians. They attach a number of sensors, and these will monitor heart rates, breathing rates, blood oxygen levels, and a host of other things throughout the study. The technicians who run the studies do not dispense medicines, do not give inoculations, and do not make health-related judgments.

There are no provisions for treatment; no emergency treatment, no normal treatment. The worst that can happen, if power to the facility were to be lost, is that the study will have to be repeated some other night.
 
I was under the understanding that some of the bonding requirements in 517 were because of the instruments attached to the patients. Would this be needed, or a good idea, at a place like this, seeing that a bunch of stuff would be attached to the subject?
 
I would have to agree with Charlie and John on this one.

I don't think that 517 applies at all, but I also think that redundent grounding would be a good idea.
 
sleep lab

sleep lab

The last work I done in a sleep lab the equipment geeks had me doing IG's. It was labs going into exsisting spaces. I was not called to do emergency circuits. I do not remember seeing any. I was asked to work late hours, so not to disturb anyone at rest of facility. At about 1:00 am those big beds were calling me for a power nap! I chose not to do it! I figured my luck the infra-reds would already be recording, or my "power" nap would lead to me being woke up by staff around 8 am!!!
 
charlie b said:
I would not say the sleeping beds are "exempt." Instead, I would say that no aspect of article 517 applies to the lab.
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Again we disagree on 517. :smile:

I have undergone that type of ?sleep study.?
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I have as well.


There is no ?care? being given to the ?study subject,? and I think it improper to describe the person as a ?patient.?
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You and I must have a different idea of 'care'.


No doctors or nurses are involved in the process; the studies are run by technicians.
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Not so during my test, there where RNs dealing with me.

They attach a number of sensors, and these will monitor heart rates, breathing rates, blood oxygen levels, and a host of other things throughout the study.
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Precisely, they attach a number of electrical leads to your body. It was my understanding it is for reasons like that the redundant grounding requirements where put in place.


The worst that can happen, if power to the facility were to be lost, is that the study will have to be repeated some other night.
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There is no way to judge that is the worst that will happen.

Again I would talk to the AHJ about it before continuing.

It's not like redundant grounding is some sort of major, costly hurdle to overcome, for that reason I expect AHJs to run very conservative. :smile:
 
iwire said:
Again we disagree on 517. You and I must have a different idea of 'care'.
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Apparently so. In my view, the gathering of information is a research project. The ?care? does not begin until someone starts making decisions on the basis of the information that was gathered. Technicians do not provide ?care.? And any job that can be done by a technician does not qualify as ?giving care,? even if that job is being performed by a nurse or doctor.

iwire said:
It was my understanding it is for reasons like that the redundant grounding requirements where put in place.
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Please note that the original question had to do with whether there is a need to have receptacles at bedside being powered by emergency circuits.
 
I would think the building code people, rather than the NEC, would be the ones to decide if the facility needed to meet 517 requirements (or 518 or 520 etc.). There are usually other building codes that must also followed in these locations, like NFPA 101 as referenced in the FPN for 517.10.
 
jim dungar said:
I would think the building code people, rather than the NEC, would be the ones to decide if the facility needed to meet 517 requirements (or 518 or 520 etc.). There are usually other building codes that must also followed in these locations, like NFPA 101 as referenced in the FPN for 517.10.
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Yes good call, and I would like to add that my state also requires a state inspection for "medical facilities" whether it be for a nursing home, a hospital, or a sleep study clinic and they have final say over what rules apply, and by final I mean the operator can't get a license to run his facility without their approval.

So basically the local AJH can say it all looks good and you can get a CO, but the state guy can say whoa there, you have some corrections that have to be made before we allow you to operate this facility.
 
ITO said:
Yes good call, and I would like to add that my state also requires a state inspection for "medical facilities" whether it be for a nursing home, a hospital, or a sleep study clinic and they have final say over what rules apply, and by final I mean the operator can't get a license to run his facility without their approval.

So basically the local AJH can say it all looks good and you can get a CO, but the state guy can say whoa there, you have some corrections that have to be made before we allow you to operate this facility.
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This, from a state, where a good defense lawyer can get you off with, "Your honor, he just needed shootin'.":grin:
 
I looked at other codes

I looked at other codes

thanks for the input so far. Besides NFPA 70 I have already looked in NFPA 99, NFPA 101 and AIA guidelines. From my reading, I have not found a place that disqualifies these beds as patient sleeping beds. For the sake of argument I have not found a place qualifying them as sleeping beds either. Besides that people are actually sleeping in these beds overnight and are being monitered through electrical devices I don't have anything else. My gut feeling is that these aren't "sleeping beds" per NFPA definition, but my feelings wont hold up in court. Once again all I found was that a nursing home sleeping bed and a limited care facility beds did not count.

As far as redundant grounding, the type of wiring used for a medical facility has to have a redundant grounding path anyway. Whether it be by in metal raceway or armored cable that is identified as a grounding path (517-13)
 
jamism said:
My gut feeling is that these aren't "sleeping beds" per NFPA definition. . . .
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That is not the issue. The issue is whether the person sleeping is a "patient." You don't have to apply 517 to a hotel, because the people sleeping there are not patients.

I'll offer another comment similar to one I made on another thread. If a sleep lab is a medical facility, and if you therefore believe that 517.18 applies, then should not the rest of 517 apply as well? Should there not, for example, also be a separation of power distribtion among the life safety branch, the critical branch, the equipment system, and the non-essential loads?
 
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The treatment under consideration in a sleep lab is observation for a disorder. A patient is "observed" at times in a regualr hospital bed that must meet 517 even though the loss of power will not hurt this catagory of patient. Unlike a hotel bed, the loss of power in a sleep lab will destroy the observation and therefore the patients treatment.

We have just completed a sleep lab and we treated it as a general patient care area. If anything, the emergency requirements dictated by the treatment will far surpass anything required in 517 with the cameras, monitors,recorders, night lights, etc.

If this lab is part of a hospital, consider 517 as applicable. If the lab is in a strip mall, I don't think 517 would apply.
 
rick hart said:
The treatment under consideration in a sleep lab is observation for a disorder.
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Which is to say that they don?t yet know whether the person has this disorder (i.e., sleep apnea).

rick hart said:
A patient is "observed" at times in a regular hospital bed that must meet 517 even though the loss of power will not hurt this category of patient.
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The person (I?ll not say ?patient?) is observed in a bed. It need not be a hospital bed, as you yourself say at the end of your comment.

rick hart said:
Unlike a hotel bed, the loss of power in a sleep lab will destroy the observation and therefore the patients treatment.
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It will invalidate the test, but the test is not ?treatment.? They will have to repeat the test, in order to determine if the person has the disorder, and in order to determine if the person is in need of ?treatment.?

rick hart said:
If this lab is part of a hospital, consider 517 as applicable. If the lab is in a strip mall, I don't think 517 would apply.
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If it is part of a hospital, then 517 already applies. If a sleep lab in a strip mall does not need 517, then why did you say earlier that the bed must meet 517?
 
rick hart said:
The treatment under consideration in a sleep lab is observation for a disorder. A patient is "observed" at times in a regualr hospital bed that must meet 517 even though the loss of power will not hurt this catagory of patient. Unlike a hotel bed, the loss of power in a sleep lab will destroy the observation and therefore the patients treatment.

We have just completed a sleep lab and we treated it as a general patient care area. If anything, the emergency requirements dictated by the treatment will far surpass anything required in 517 with the cameras, monitors,recorders, night lights, etc.

If this lab is part of a hospital, consider 517 as applicable. If the lab is in a strip mall, I don't think 517 would apply.
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Now see, here's where it gets tricky about what you decide it is. In a strip mall the building code requires 1hr separation between the B and the I. Now the only reason that it would be required to be wired per 517 is if it is designated as an I by the building department or whomever makes that decision in your jurisdiction.
 
I am with Charlie! I have had the test and there are no "electrical" test instruments on the person during the test. I quoted electrical because it is an electrical test instrument but not hooked to and premise wiring. It was battery powered and shot an infrared beam to a computer that recorded the signals and info. I agree that no EM power should be required. It happens that my test was done in a hospital so all met 517 anyway.:smile:
 
Charlie,

I tried to quote your post but it was way too messy wth that point by point stuff.

The point about the strip mall was that it wasn't a hospital. Back alley sleep labs exist somewhere, I'm sure. They do not care about code or much more than collecting fees.

If on the other hand, this particular install is within a hospital or expects to make insurance claims against the medical procedure, 517 applies. < (that's a period.)

If you do not believe me about this being an Inpatient Care Area, tha's OK; I have nothing to gain by arguing the nuances. Joint Commision considers it part of the patient...person in your words...risk exposure when they enter an accredited facility. But that is only for accredited facilities. This decision of the actual risk is best left to those that actually understand the risks at the sleep lab being designed and risks the loss of data and time. Having to redo a test is a big headache and costs thousands to perform. Not all risks end badly with the patient...person...croaking.

I am willing to bet the sleep lab personnel are a little more impressed with the importance of this procedure than most here are.
 
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