small apliances

[boris machado]

the NEC include the outlet for refrigeration equipment into the two or more 20 amp small appliances branch circuits . that means that if I have 1 20 amp branch circuit small appliance serving a small kitchenette and another branch circuit serving the refrigerator and ok (up to code )

 

[bphgravity]

Re: small apliances

No, not really. You still need at least two circuits to serve the counter top receptalces no matter how small the kitchen is.

 

[charlie b]

Re: small apliances

I agree. That comes from the "or more" portion of the "2 or more circuits" requirement.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: small apliances

Nope the fridge doesn`t fit in the scenario.What you are allowed to do is hit the fridge and then go to the counter for a gfci ckt.Then you would be required to have 1 more gfci circuit.Without a counter top to see you might have only 2 receptacles.But no matter there are 2 required

 

[allenwayne]

Re: small apliances

That does bring up a unusal event.Suppose there was a kitchen that had fridge on left side then 11 ins to sink rim on other side there is 11 ins to range then1 1in to wall What now

 

[jimwalker]

Re: small apliances

Still gotta give them 2 sa circuits

 

[redfish]

Re: small apliances

boris, 210.52 (B) (1)

(B) Small Appliances
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

 

[infinity]

Re: small apliances

That does bring up a unusal event.Suppose there was a kitchen that had fridge on left side then 11 ins to sink rim on other side there is 11 ins to range then1 1in to wall What now

Sounds like you would be required to have 2 SA circuits that aren't required to serve anything.

 

[boris machado]

Re: small apliances

let me refrase my question ,thas almost exactly what I have a real small kitchen ( the call it kitchenette) with 1 ckt serving the real small counter space (gfci)and another one for the refrigerator(small also)I think they consider this one as the other 20 amp small appliance require in 250.52(b)(1) I think the same way

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: small apliances

Boris, the wording in the NEC is requiring two sa circuits to serve the counter top. The fridge can be fed from one of the circuits but both circuits must serve the counter. If there is only a small counter put a two gang receptacle with each duplex fed from a different circuit. This keeps you legal.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: small apliances

Originally posted by boris machado:
let me refrase my question ,thas almost exactly what I have a real small kitchen ( the call it kitchenette) with 1 ckt serving the real small counter space (gfci)and another one for the refrigerator(small also)I think they consider this one as the other 20 amp small appliance require in 250.52(b)(1) I think the same way

NEC-2002 210.52(B)(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits, either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small-appliance branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.

Fridge included or not, the countertops (small as they may be) are required to be served by two small appliance branch circuits.

Scott's suggestion is a good one, if your space is that small.

Edit: Or,. if you want to be a real smart-aleck, install two GFI breakers, or whatever, and break the neutral and hot tabs on a duplex receptacle. Install a single gang, your duplex, and feed either side with your two SABC's. That'll fry somebody's brain.

[ August 16, 2005, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[allenwayne]

Re: small apliances

We know there has to be 2 SA ckts. but code states 12 in or more of counter top.In this case we are right if we install but at the same time the code allows us to not supply a recep. since the counter tops are only 11 ins.
Though not required for size but needed to make code

 

[George Stolz]

Re: small apliances

No, if there is no countertop to serve, then there's none to serve. In my last post, I was just addressing the kitchenette as though it did have one counter 12" wide.

If there is no counter, then there can be a SABC for the fridge, and an SABC for a dining room receptacle or two. I'd begin to wonder if it's really a dwelling unit at that point.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: small apliances

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Edit: Or,. if you want to be a real smart-aleck, install two GFI breakers, or whatever, and break the neutral and hot tabs on a duplex receptacle. Install a single gang, your duplex, and feed either side with your two SABC's. That'll fry somebody's brain.

In this case, the two GFCI breakers would need a handle-tie, as the two circuits would be supplying devices on a single yoke.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: small apliances

Originally posted by LarryFine:

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Edit: Or,. if you want to be a real smart-aleck, install two GFI breakers, or whatever, and break the neutral and hot tabs on a duplex receptacle. Install a single gang, your duplex, and feed either side with your two SABC's. That'll fry somebody's brain.

In this case, the two GFCI breakers would need a handle-tie, as the two circuits would be supplying devices on a single yoke.

Wouldn't that only apply to multi wire branch circuits Larry?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: small apliances

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Wouldn't that only apply to multi wire branch circuits Larry?

I know this is ancient, but I was searching for the SABC/UC marathon, and saw this.

Scott, see 210.4 or 210.7. One of the two (too lazy to look) is not talking about MWBC's, and requires a handle-tie for two independent circuits on the same yoke.

 

[steve66]

Re: small apliances

Question for the origional poster:

Is this a house, or a commercial job??

Steve

 

[sparky_magoo]

Re: small apliances

Couldn't george use a 240 volt two pole GFCI breaker for his scenario?

 

[jwelectric]

Re: small apliances

Originally posted by steve66:
Question for the origional poster:

Is this a house, or a commercial job??

Steve

Sounds like a small RV set up on a permanent lot.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: small apliances

Or just put a 2 gang in and line side one while the fridge was fed and then line side the second SA circuit.Ok I`m convinced note to self buy stock in gfci company