small appliance branch circuits

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

Just my two cents.....As far as 210.52 b 2 reads to me,it is not permissible.210.52 b 1,allows dining ,countertop and refrigeration to be part of the circuit.210.11 c 1 says that the receptacles have to be in the parameters of the article.210.52 b 2 no other outlets.......Unless you call a d/w supplemental equiptment????
210.52 c 5 if in a cabinet it cannot meet this article so lets face it dedicate the d/w the disposal your choice on the fridge and just balance the load as allowed
422.10 b goes to 210.23a exception it says only on that circuit............just my 2 cents guys...

 

[hurk27]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

Ok I have to add to the cornfusion

If we read this requirment from 210.52 (B)(3)
it says that either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1)
Now if we look at 210.52 (B) (1) it says the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and (C) and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

So this directs us to 210.52 (A) and (C) Which tells us (A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units

Boy would the lawyers have a field day with this

Of course (C) is for counter tops.
But if you follow the wording it sounds like we can put every receptacle in the house on the two small-appliance branch circuits

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

hurk,

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and (C) and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

The section limits the receptacles permitted on the small appliance branch circuits to those shown in bold type above. It does not permit the receptacles in all of the areas listed in 210.52(A) to be on the small appliance circuit.
Don

 

[hurk27]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

So 210.11(C)(1) Is talking about a different set of small appliance circuits? and if this is true then are we required to have 4 20 amp small-appliance circuits now? this is even more cornfuseing

So what is it saying in the second half of 210.52 (B) (1) ?

the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and (C) and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

[ April 19, 2003, 02:25 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

210.11 C Is the minimum requirement for branch circuits to serve different areas of a dwelling. 210.52 Gives you specifics as to what is or is not allowed on these circuits. If I was speaking I could explain more clearly. But it is too early to type myself silly right now!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

hurk,
You can't apply the second half of 210.52(B) without applying the first half. The first half limits the outlets to those in "the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area ". This wording excludes the other outlets specified in 210.52(A) from being connected to the small appliance branch circuits.
Don

 

[george t. everett]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

If the DW or the GD does't draw more then ten amps then they can be on the same 20 amp circuit.

 

[torint]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

George...what if they do draw lets say 16a total...why can't they still be on a 20a ckt. even if derating facter's are to be considered, the GD will ony be on for a short period of time. I'm just asking...I need some direction here.

 

[george t. everett]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

Torint, I guess I did not word my statement right. I meant to say that if either appliance is less then 50 percent of the circuit ampacity, then this is OK on a 20 amp circuit. I still don't if i worded it right, but I hope you know what I any trying to say. Thanks

 

[txsparky]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

Originally posted by james wuebker:
torint, your instructor was probably right a long time ago, but in these days homes have up to 3/4 hp on thier GD. These will draw some current so I believe that GD should be on it's own circuit.
bye now

Although I always run a seperate circuit for the GD and DW, are these GD's really 3/4 hp or are they being marketed like the air compressors that claim to be 5 hp. but come with a 15amp 125v. male plug ?

[ April 21, 2003, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: txsparky ]

 

[tim]

Re: small appliance branch circuits

WE have put the GB and DW on the same circuit ever since I started in the trades. I have not ever had a call back or problem with doing this. Also, don't most people use the GB first then load the DW? At my house they never run at the same time.