Small Company Depth Chart

[e57]

I see not too many differences in what you have said initially to what I have - you just have decided who you think I am and what I know - and don't know.

I think the first thing you need to do is sit down with your buddy and decide what you want your business to de in a year,in five years and in ten. I was told early that if you don't know where you are going how are you going to get their.

If you want to be a two man operation with a helper then you have reached your goal. Now you can stay their or you set a new goal.

One thing to look at is your organizational chart and decide who is going to wear which hat.Play to your strenghts if he is a better estimator then he should wear that hat if you are better at marketing then you wear that one. You will probably each wear several hats. One of the first hats I removed was Office manager hiring a good office manager can free alot of your time she does accounts payable/recievable, payrole,billing, job scheduling and marketing.

I would recommend getting a J-man first this will allow you to take off your tools and focus on growing your business also if you or your buddy are sidelined your business wont come to a screeching halt.

Dont wait till you need help then you will be in a rush and prone to just hire a pair of hands, take your time to find someone who fits your vision and will help you get to your goals

 

[Rewire]

Yeah - Broadening the structure of management and oversight.

sounds like newspeak

And not every contract is as "cookie cutter" as a Gap or BK. Most take quite a lot more decision making and interpretive ability that the average JW does not have.

whty would you have a need for the JW to interpret the contract? Their job is to read the spec book and follow the prints and install to code.the majority of jobs do not need a PM but a skilled JW.

I have no doubt you feel you have a point but you seem to be unable to express it.

 

[e57]

sounds like newspeak

Yeah - some of us can do that.

whty would you have a need for the JW to interpret the contract? Their job is to read the spec book and follow the prints and install to code.the majority of jobs do not need a PM but a skilled JW.

That too is not what I was saying, but something you have decided to harp on - for some reason. You gave an an example of hiring people for the office and JW so you could do more things - running work. I agree, but added maybe it is a good idea to be able to run multiple projects first - on your own. And yes - at some point if you ever get big enough - you will have to hire someone to do that too. Someone who may even be better at it that you are.

I have no doubt you feel you have a point but you seem to be unable to express it.

No - it seems you just don't think I rate to be able to say it - as a "worker bee'....

I have a license - I have been on my own. I have worn all hats.... But at some point I was smart enough to realize my other non-professional goals without risk.

• Do something I know well and enjoy.
• Get paid well for it! With benefits....
• No risk & legally required assurances...

And I'm sticking my head out here - but who cares...

I have been paid better than some of my employers have paid themselves. Doing a job that some of them were incapable of doing at my level - and they knew it... And you can guarantee that there are many shops out there doing the same, but you will be hard pressed to ever get an "owner" man-enough to admit that. They'll reach for the XL condoms when people are looking, and sneak to the counter with XS ones...

 

[Rewire]

Yeah - some of us can do that.That too is not what I was saying, but something you have decided to harp on - for some reason. You gave an an example of hiring people for the office and JW so you could do more things - running work. I agree, but added maybe it is a good idea to be able to run multiple projects first - on your own. And yes - at some point if you ever get big enough - you will have to hire someone to do that too. Someone who may even be better at it that you are.No - it seems you just don't think I rate to be able to say it - as a "worker bee'....

I have a license - I have been on my own. I have worn all hats.... But at some point I was smart enough to realize my other non-professional goals without risk.

• Do something I know well and enjoy.
• Get paid well for it! With benefits....
• No risk & legally required assurances...

And I'm sticking my head out here - but who cares...

I have been paid better than some of my employers have paid themselves. Doing a job that some of them were incapable of doing at my level - and they knew it... And you can guarantee that there are many shops out there doing the same, but you will be hard pressed to ever get an "owner" man-enough to admit that. They'll reach for the XL condoms when people are looking, and sneak to the counter with XS ones...

Prozac...I'm not sayin I'm just sayin..

 

[George Stolz]

I have been remiss at catching up with this thread. Why is it whenever there is a snit Rewire is involved...?

(For the record, I went on a little road trip this weekend, I wasn't too swamped with work to check in. )

Many thanks for the replies. My buddy (Tez) and I discussed it today, and I likened his role in the company to the fuel pump in a car - if he isn't bringing the fuel to the engine to be consumed (i.e. work to the workers to be completed) then the engine is going to starve out pretty quick.

The problem is that we'd like to be able to serve all our customers not only promptly but efficiently, and if two jobs coincide then right now, one job is going on hold to serve the second. It's pretty crummy, IMO, but I suppose it is SOP for the small one/three-man shops.

I've given some thought to this, and took what advice I had seen last week (setting goals) and ran with it. We'd like to be able to engage two small jobs at one time. So, we're thinking an ideal size for us would be two JWs and four apprentices in the field. I would spend probably 50% or more time with tools on, and Tez would mainly market, get our name out there, and get after work.

For now, we're thinking that he should forward all calls to me in the field while I am working, and he should take a trial run at doing the kind of work he would be doing in that ideal environment. Right now would be the time for the experiment, because the work I am currently doing I can now do asleep, and can take calls and schedule them without hampering me.

One of our concerns is about being too top-heavy, which is something we've both seen in the past and are keen to avoid. But I think that once the tracks are laid, I can stay pretty busy estimating and filling time doing piddly service calls, so even at that "ideal" number we wouldn't actually be 25% administrators and 75% workers, which to me seems like too many chiefs to indians.

Any thoughts are appreciated, and thanks for all the replies!

 

[quogueelectric]

My buddy and I are trying to determine how we would like to grow. Currently, we're sitting at him, me, and an experienced apprentice. We are getting a lot of calls from guys out of work.

If we hire a journeyman, two small crews can be in two places at the same time. The journeyman (if he's worth his wage) can be left to take care of a job by himself.

However, adding another experienced apprentice would be cheaper, and would get the two licenses we have moving in and out faster.

Work is trickling in, but almost too strong a trickle to handle with what we got. I'm kinda leaning towards doing nothing at the moment, finish the main job we've got going right now and see where we're at.

What is your ideal growth pattern? What does your ideal depth chart look like? At what point do you pull the trigger and hire one more?

We deal mainly in residential, probably 70% / 30%.

Network a force of guys who will work per diem when and where you need them. They are out there where they can get 1 or 2 days a week from you and the same deal from 3 or 4 other contractors in simmilar situations to make thier weeks complete.

 

[George Stolz]

On a 1099 and all that? I'm not sure I can 1099 a non-licensed electrician.

 

[e57]

~ so even at that "ideal" number we wouldn't actually be 25% administrators and 75% workers, which to me seems like too many chiefs to indians.

Any thoughts are appreciated, and thanks for all the replies!

I have never been fond of the "Chief and Indian" analogy even they had many levels in between.

Being a former military man - I think in the terms of Officer, Staff NCO, NCO, and E-3 and below. Incorporated and over-lapping levels.

I've been in companies of both types - the Chief and Indian route has some drawbacks of growth and mentorship are hard to accomplish, and and only work so far.... But is fine since you are small enough now to only have two levels. But when you get to ten guys you need to stratify a bit.... Trust me on that.

Here's an REAL LIFE example of how the chief and indian thing did not work so well in a 15 man shop I worked at ten years ago... The company had two owners in a 80/20 split - '80' did most of the sales, and '20' did ALL of the field and a good chunk of the commercial side sales.... '80' took a long deserved two month long vacation, two days into that '20' DIED..... Took us JW's until the following Monday to start calling each other to even find out, mainly because we did not get paid, and also because we were getting complaints that '20' was not returning calls. Found out one guy thought he was sacked because he was supposed to meet '20' to start a job - never showed and didn't return calls... We all got together in a bar to try to figure it out - '80' wasn't answering calls and turns out his phone didn't even work in Italy.... One of us had a letter from the PT accountant and called her... Turns out she had found out about '20's death Friday before after trying to get him to give her payroll - in last ditch effort she went to his house... Found out from a neighbor, and didn't have keys to the office to get our numbers....

We worked out getting paid with the accountant - and taking supply houses billing, GC were nice enough to keep paying.... We eventually broke into the office to find the answering machine had a password - had the calls forwarded to another office in the building of a sympathetic GC we worked for to answer calls... Eventually, a week before '80's vacation was to end - '80' called to find out why '20' wouldn't answer the phone - to find it answered by his clients office.... During that time it took a lot for all of us to keep everything floating. And when '80' got back it took very little time to realize that much of what '20' did on a day to day basis, '80' had no clue about... It was a shambles for nearly a year. What's worse is '80' learned nothing from the experience (we did), and eventually hired a dominant PM to fill the same centralized position.

Anyway - I think I've said enough on this point.

 

[Rewire]

I have been remiss at catching up with this thread. Why is it whenever there is a snit Rewire is involved...?

Now that was totally uncalled for and I demand an appology.

 

[George Stolz]

Now that was totally uncalled for and I demand an appology.

I hope you're joking, 'cause I was - I mean, mostly.

 

[Rewire]

Never been one to stay where I am not welcome

 

[Dolfan]

Don't you worry Mr. Ozarks, you wit is very welcome. By the way, would you be interested in being my mentor?

 

[benaround]

George,

I think the hardest thing to do is balance the amount of work at hand vs. the amount of

help at hand, very seldom it is just right. Too much work and you worry about taking care

of your customers, too little work and you worry about laying off your men, of the two I

would rather worry about too much work !