Smart meter fires

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Hv&Lv said:
The black button on the face of an ITron C2SOD is to control the display function. (The "D" is for demand, the "T" on other models is for time of use, and the "L" is for demand and time of use.)There is a remote disconnect built within CERTAIN models(it is an option) that will either limit power, or shut off completely.
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The displays and data registers on these units can be customized by each utility. Ours don't display any demand info, though it should be possible with an in-home device that talks to the meter. The button has no effect on the display. Here's the cycle shown on ours:

  • Segment test (all on)
  • Register 01 - kWh from utility
  • Register 02 - kWh to utility
  • Register 01
  • Level ## - Transmit power level (I've seen between 9 and 30)
  • Register 01
  • Not Sync/Sync/Sync Net - Mesh network status
  • Register 01
  • Not Reg/Reg - Registered with billing computer?
  • Register 01 - cycle repeats

http://www.ic.gc.ca/pics/lm/electric/ae/1631.pdf
"This switch is used as the remote disconnect switch reset button on the models equipped with the disconnect option."
"C2SO - Meters equipped with a Register Display and OpenWay RF automated meter reading (AMR) module.
C2SOD - Meters equipped with a Register Display, OpenWay RF AMR module and a remote disconnect switch. A low profile disconnect switch is integrated into the meter base."

don_resqcapt19 said:
As far as hacking, if it communicates, it can be hacked. Will it be? not likely as there is no real reason to hack the data from a meter, but there sure is to hack the utility control systems.
The only unhackable computer is a completely stand along one with no wireless or hard wired communication connections, and even then it may be possible to get data out of it remotely.
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Well one of the arguments I see regularly is "all wireless can be hacked." While this is probably true, the sheer effort required makes the possibility extremely remote depending on the circumstances. Digicypher II has been around for at least 15 years and has yet to be hacked. It's Motorola's encryption protocol for satellite and cable TV used in about 70% of the North American market. Other satellite TV encryption has been hacked before, such as ExpressVu, Dish Network, and DirecTV. The difference is that they all used open security standards (DVB) whereas Motorola's system is completely proprietary and they don't tell anyone how it works. I suspect something similar with Itron's OpenWay mesh. It's my understanding that it's based on a proprietary 900 Mhz mesh network, rather than an open standard like 802.11b WiFi.

It's refreshing to interact with another human who realizes that there's no real point to hacking meters. There's nothing to be gained that couldn't be learned by watching the dials on the side of your house...
 
Rampage_Rick said:
...
It's refreshing to interact with another human who realizes that there's no real point to hacking meters. There's nothing to be gained that couldn't be learned by watching the dials on the side of your house...
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While there is little to be gained, it would be much easier to get the information using a computer and some type of hack that watching the meter for long periods of time. Now when appliance control becomes common, then you could have some mischievous fun turning appliances on and off, but I expect the blue tooth or zig-bee communications between the meter and the appliances would be much easier to hack then the actual utility communications with the meter.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Hal,
With the governement trampling on our civil liberties, I think the gentleman has some good points.
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Yeah, but the black helicopter thing is a bit over the top don't you think? Those videos are 100% inciting propaganda. I don't want to get political but the internet and the fourth ammendment allows garbage like that to flourish today and affect the ignorant and gullible. It's one of the reasons we are in the mess we are in today.


-Hal
 
hbiss said:
How about this whack job. Any wonder why there is hysteria?








-Hal
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I only watched about 2/3 of the first video and had enough of it. This guy has no clue, and is looking at things very narrow mindedly. He mentiones all of these bad possible things the devices may be used for and has no mention of positives. Most of the bad is speculation and he has no facts to back it up with, and what he attempts to back up with facts he simply has wrong. Things like time of day billing - or whatever he called it is nothing more than peak demand monitoring which is nothing new. It may be new for certain groups of customers. The POCO is not trying to make more money because you are using too much power - they are trying to keep generation and distribution cost down by limiting the load at peak times, and rewarding you with lower power bills if you keep your load down down during peak demand periods. The alternative is to increase capability and make up for it by charging everyone a higher rate whether they use more power or not.

And what kind of personal data or survelliance does he think is going on? Sure the technology is probably available to do some of what he claims but what interest do utilities have in doing such a thing? If you use the internet you are at much higher risk of some kind of invasion from people you do not do any kind of business with.

He never mentioned the fact that water meters and gas meters have similar technology - maybe those utility companies are monitoring everything you do also.

Even propane, diesel, gas, fuel oil companies have tank monitors for customers that dispatches someone to refill them when necessary nowadays.
 
I guess if you are really afraid of what your utility companies are doing you can refrain from using their services. That includes electricity, water, gas, telephone, wireless phone, cable TV, satellite TV, and I really would be afraid of what comes back through the sewer:happyyes:
 
I remember probably 25 years ago installing a phone line to an apartment building boiler room. It was use to control a device that would change the boilers from natural gas to oil when the utility company gas demand exceeded a set level. The building owner undoubtedly paid a lower rate. So this kind of thing has been around for many, many years.

-Hal
 
Sierrasparky said:
those new smart meters are capable of turning off completely. They have large solid state Relays. A customer of mine won the contract to supply those relays for Iltron.
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I just stumbled across the segment from How It's Made regarding the exact Itron C2SOD meters we have. It appears that the remote disconnect in this model is in fact a solenoid-driven contactor with 4 points per phase. There could be a potential for arcing during high-current switching. Also, there's considerably less copper in these meters than I would have guessed...

 
Rampage_Rick said:
It appears that the remote disconnect in this model is in fact a solenoid-driven contactor with 4 points per phase. There could be a potential for arcing during high-current switching.
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And not very large contacts at that. I don't think it's designed for anything more frequent than non-pay disconnects.

-Hal
 
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