Smart Meters

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
What is a smart meter when referring to the poco meter? I'm picturing a meter that can perhaps shed a load during a brown out thereby reducing the problems associated with overloaded distribution lines. Not sure how it would do this if I'm guessing correctly. Do they have this or other features that make them "smart"?
 
Smart meters do not have the ability to shed load or do any other sort of Magic .
What they do is communicate with the host.
They can provide up to the minute load data for metering.
Some have remote control of a internal switch. That the POCO can use to turn on or off service. I suppose they can use to shed the entire load with this.
Some can communicate with smart devices in the home or office to load shed.
Much of the use and technology is still emerging.
 
The term Smart Meter is generally understood to mean a digital meter that has the ability for two way communications in real time with the POCO management and billing computers.
They can be a valuable part of a "Smart Grid" that also includes remotely controllable load switches, HVAC controls, and even co-generation and PV solar inverters. But those are all separate items.
The meters use either RF or carrier current technology to send the information to local relay points that forward the information to the central system.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Lots of controversy regarding smart metering. Some feel they are an invasion of privacy, since they record power usage patterns. They allow two way communication and can communicate to the internet and provide customer information, historical cost graphs, real time cost displays, etc. via the utility websites and require only a password to access the account. That seems to worry people who fear hackers or law enforcement may profile users to detect grow lights used for marijuana grows or other "private" usage history. Information which is now supposedly only available by court order. The industry faces installation mandates in the next few years.

Salt River Project in Phoenix installed a million meter pilot program to see if customers really paid attention to the information provided on the website regarding usage and cost. The first few weeks showed strong interest and lots of "hits", but those dropped to nearly zero within a few months and usage pattern remained basically unchanged.

But, they're here to stay. It's all tied into the "Smart Grid", which in some people's opinion is an easy target for those who wish harm to this country. The technology is still in the growth phase and there are lots of different vendors out there, mostly varying by the method of communication.

As far as load shedding, they can provide customers with cost incentives if they allow the utility to remotely turn off air conditioners in summer or set back thermostats in winter during high usage periods to reduce brownouts or rolling blackouts, but as far as I know, participation is optional. Remote disconnect/reconnect has been around for quite awhile, along with "time of use" rate systems. Smart meters just make things easier. Would I worry about one on my house?...probably not.
 
I am currently using some $20 hardware and some free software to decode the 'smart meter' transmissions from the meter on my house and for a good number of surrounding houses in the neighborhood.

Decoding this information is trivial, it is apparently transmitted completely 'in the clear'.

The meters around me simply transmit the total kWh value, repeating it every few seconds. I have not seen any 'finer grain' information, but some meters will transmit in units of 10Wh or will transmit usage rate info.

The meters around me are 'part 15' devices transmitting in the 915 MHz ISM band. Arguably they interfere with 'ham' use of this band, and would have to accept any interference if a 'ham' were to transmit in this band.

-Jon
 
161207-0921 EST

winnie:

Could you start a specific thread with all the specific information you have on monitoring smart meters.


To others:

Our meter uses a mesh network between houses and then to possibly its own cell tower, and then possibly into the commercial cell system or a land line. Originally we had good means via the Internet to get hourly and longer data. That has been dropped. Now we have to communicate with DTE thru a cellphone application that is not as satisfactory for data analysis. A new useful is --- if you have a little box that communicates directly with the meter, then you have the ability to get average power averaged over about 5 seconds. This communication stops whenever the meter communicates on the mesh network which always occurs about once per day after midnight.

Our meters have a wimpy contactor, very small contacts for a 200 A system. This contactor is used to disable power for unpaid bills or when a customer leaves. The contactor would not last long if used to control loading on the grid, and customers would not like un-necessary power interruptions. A major problem would be the need to reset clocks. Using the meter via local wifi to control appliances is a much better method of modulating grid load.

.
 
Here in the west we occasionally have rolling black outs. Rare but they can do it.
The utility would rather people load shed than force shutdowns.
 
Utilities do offer load shed equipment though for HVAC and water heaters that you can optionally install. Here they offer a small rebate for allowing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
brantmacga said:
Utilities do offer load shed equipment though for HVAC and water heaters that you can optionally install. Here they offer a small rebate for allowing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I have that, I opted in for it. It's a separate box that is attached to my A/C unit so they can turn off my A/C in peak demand times. I get a reduction of one "tier" in the TOU pricing structure during the peak demand season, defined (by them) as May 1 through October 31. It works on a Line Carrier Modem, basically using their existing wiring as the communication path by superimposing a comm signal on it. it doesn't really need to be two way comms for that, the box just receives a signal that's sent out to ALL boxes saying "turn off" and later, "turn back on". It's not measuring anything with it nor, according to the guy who installed it, does their system actually know if it functioned! I actually had that installed about a year before they put in the Smart Meter, they are not directly related to each other. The Smart Meter is an RF transmission to cell sites on poles in the area.

One nice thing I've noticed since the Smart Meters went in, they know a LOT faster when a line is down and are now back up faster too because they can immediately pinpoint exactly where the problem is. In the past they had to rely on people calling in to tell them they had no power. But I'm not convinced that's the real reason behind the investment. I really think it's the ability to remotely kill someone's power when they don't pay the bill rather than sending a lineman out to do it, and the elimination of meter readers, with all of the liability and risk both jobs entailed for the utility.
 
brantmacga said:
Utilities do offer load shed equipment though for HVAC and water heaters that you can optionally install. Here they offer a small rebate for allowing it.
Click to expand...

Feen-X has been doing it for about 20 years or so now.
they dump the electric clothes dryer in the afternoons,
among other things, during peak summertime usage.

i dunno why anyone would need the clothes dryer in
Feex-X at that time. just walk outside and throw the
wet clothes up in the air. they will be dry when they
hit the ground.

"But it's a dry heat".

:p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top