Smoke Det. Requirements in additions, When?

[MrHopper]

I work for a small electrical contractor in Ohio. We do many different jobs, before my boss started his own business he worked for years for production electricians. We were hired to wire an addition on a house probably built around 1930's or 1940's.

We wired it and without giving it much thought didn't put in a smoke det. The inspector passed it on condition we install a hardwired, bat backup smoke in the addition(which was on our pass sheet from insp). So we rough in a smoke. This is going to be general use space, not bedroom or bathroom etc. A remodeler has since been working on the addition insulating, drywalling, siding etc.

We get a call from the homeowner saying we have the electrical all screwed up he now claims the inspector wants a smoke just inside the existing structure from the addition which happens to be the kitchen (doesn't sound like the best place) hardwired to the new one as well as one hardwired in the basement. And the remodelers were kind enough to drop a wire from our smoke to the basement.

Question?

1. What does NFPA require for additions to existing structures, when does it need a smoke? Based on Sq'? $? rooms? sleeping rooms?

2. When does the existing structure need smokes added? this is a 2 story structure with mult additions and lath/plast, would be no easy or cheap task.

3. Would the electrical inspector have authority to require smokes or is that all fire marshal? I think I understand the electrical inspector is only looking for correct wiring

4. We're not really on good terms with this contractor and think maybe he is mad because he didn't get to use his electrician and get a cut on that. So he tells the home owner we did it wrong. (just my opinion) Maybe we did, you tell me.

5. One last question, on an interconnected system you have a hot, Neut and Interconnect wire, how does the IC wire work? I'm no fire system expert, I know how to wire on new const. If AC is lost do they all signal together still or is that lost? (is it an AC or DC signal on the IC wire?) if it were an AC signal and it was tied it in to a general circuit in an addition, someone could have problems if they ever hardwired the rest of the structure because then it wouldn't be on an arcfault. While if it were DC running off the battery or durring power falures they acted seperatly they could be fed from different locations. Thanks Mainly a curiosity of how they actually work.

 

[websparky]

Your inspector is correct. Here is the 2003 version of the ICC residential code that is adapted to the state code with a few changes. However, the state code is the same in this section.

R313.1.1 Alterations, repairs and additions. When interi-or alterations, repairs or additions requiring a permit occur, or when one or more sleeping rooms are added or created in existing dwellings, the individual dwelling unit shall be provided with smoke alarms located as required for new dwellings; the smoke alarms shall be interconnected and hard wired.
Exceptions:
1. Smoke alarms in existing areas shall not be re-quired to be interconnected and hard wired where the alterations or repairs do not result in the remov-al of interior wall or ceiling finishes exposing the structure, unless there is an attic, crawl space, or basement availablewhich could provide access for hard wiring and interconnection without the re-moval of interior finishes.
2. Repairs to the exterior surfaces of dwellings are ex-empt from the requirements of this section.

As far as the wiring, just follow the directions that come with the units.

 

[jxofaltrds]

As of 27 May 2006 Ohio has a state wide residential building code. HB 175.

Residential Code of Ohio (RCO).

It applies to everyone even if there are no building departments in the area in which you work. That means if you compete with people who do not follow the 2005 NEC you can inform your prospective customers that it is the LAW that the 2005 NEC be followed. The tia for swimming pools is the only change that Ohio has adopted.

RCO 313 Smoke Alarms.

If you do not have the RCO and most people do not. That section in the IRC 2003 appears to be the same with one addition exempting screened porches.

 

[dnem]

This response is about 6 months too late for that project but there are general questions here that will come up again and again on different projects.

Question?

1. What does NFPA require for additions to existing structures, when does it need a smoke? Based on Sq'? $? rooms? sleeping rooms?

There are no NEC smoke requirements

2. When does the existing structure need smokes added? this is a 2 story structure with mult additions and lath/plast, would be no easy or cheap task.

You're in Ohio, so yes, all projects must comply with Ohio residential code Section 313. . Section 313 says that smoke detectors in the existing house section are not "grandfathered". . The whole house has to be brought up to current code requirements [with some exceptions that I talk about below].

3. Would the electrical inspector have authority to require smokes or is that all fire marshal? I think I understand the electrical inspector is only looking for correct wiring

Building Department inspectors are charged with enforcing Ohio building codes which includes the smokes. . Electrical Inspectors have to ensure that all electrical devices and equipment operate
1) according to NEC
2) according to state building code
3) manufacturers specs
4) and for Commercial projects, according to approved prints provided for plan review from the General Contractor or Owners Engineer or Architect

4. We're not really on good terms with this contractor and think maybe he is mad because he didn't get to use his electrician and get a cut on that. So he tells the home owner we did it wrong. (just my opinion) Maybe we did, you tell me.

Did it wrong is too harsh and not really accurate. . Didn't complete the job according to state code requirements is more accurate. . You are responsible for finding out all requirements for each project. . The NEC isn't the only standard that must be met. . Every state has state building codes that impact the electrical contractor. . Some states other than Ohio still allow local codes [in Ohio, local codes were thrown out this year with the introduction of new 1, 2, + 3 family residential code.]

The 2 most common Ohio code requirements that we find electrical contractors overlook are:
OBBC Section 313 Smoke Alarms
OBBC Section 303.6 Stairway illumination which requires direct lighting onto every tread of a stairway controlled according to NEC 210.70(A)(2)(c) and the exception

5. One last question, on an interconnected system you have a hot, Neut and Interconnect wire, how does the IC wire work? I'm no fire system expert, I know how to wire on new const. If AC is lost do they all signal together still or is that lost? (is it an AC or DC signal on the IC wire?) if it were an AC signal and it was tied it in to a general circuit in an addition, someone could have problems if they ever hardwired the rest of the structure because then it wouldn't be on an arcfault. While if it were DC running off the battery or durring power falures they acted seperatly they could be fed from different locations. Thanks Mainly a curiosity of how they actually work.

The interconnects function is control signaling only. . You attach the red wire from your Romex to the orange or grey on the detector harness for interconnect signaling only. . All power distributes thru the black and white conductors in the Romex between the smokes which are supplied from only one supply to any one of the detectors but only one detector. . When the power goes out, the detectors are all independently powered by their individual batteries.

The interconnect wire has only one function. . It allows the smokes to communicate with each other. . When one "sniffs" smoke, it not only starts screaming, but it also tells the other smokes that they should sound the alarm also.

I don't know if the communication signal is AC or DC or what voltage it operates on, but I do know what happens when you hook the interconnect wire to 120volt power supply. . When I was a contractor, I had an electrican that supplied the smokes with a 12-3 Romex and hooked the red of the HR to to the interconnect. . It fried the smokes to the point they started smoking and one actually blew up. . Sounded like an M80 going off. . Scared the hell out of me !


Getting back to the requirements for smokes in Ohio

Section 313 has specific requirements and also states that the installation must meet the requirements of NFPA 72.
We have a handout that includes the requirements of 313 and also the highlights of NFPA 72. . The only thing that it doesn't include is the exemptions of the Power and Wiring requirements. . The power and wiring section doesn't apply to areas that would require damaging undisturbed finished surfaces in order to comply. . It also doesn't apply to a project that is a screened porch, deck, or "similar structure". . "Similar structure" is not defined in the Ohio code so we interprete that as being room additions that do not include an extension of the existing HVAC system.

I'll copy our handout below.

smoke detectors must be up to current code in whole house before final inspection

Residential Smoke Detector Requirements
Power & Wiring
120 volt supply with battery backup
2 wire Romex from house power to one detector and 3 wire Romex interconnection between all detectors
Room Location
Flat ceiling rooms:
On ceiling 4 or more inches from wall
On wall 4 to 12 inches between top of detector and ceiling
Sloped ceiling rooms:
Within the triangle formed by the ceiling, walls, and an imaginary plane located 3 feet from the peak
but at least 4 inches from any corner
House Locations
Must be in all locations listed below
1] One in each bedroom
2] One in each common area/room within each bedroom grouping
Area Location: If there are soffets, headers, roll-off edges, or ceiling air return intakes between the
detector location and any bedroom door, then the detector must be within 10 feet of that bedroom door
3] One on each floor that does not have any bedrooms
Exception: Two floors that are offset by only ? of a flight of stairs can both be protected by one detector
on the upper floor.

 

[allenwayne]

i`ll jump in the water on this one..... The inspector says install a smoke here and there to comply with applicable building codes not NEC.The ec complies and later is told that what the inspector had required is not good enough ????
What we install is to be NEC compliant.The plans had to go through plan review.Is it the EC`s job to question that review???? We bid what is on an APPROVED plan.

 

[dnem]

i`ll jump in the water on this one..... The inspector says install a smoke here and there to comply with applicable building codes not NEC.The ec complies and later is told that what the inspector had required is not good enough ????
What we install is to be NEC compliant.The plans had to go through plan review.Is it the EC`s job to question that review???? We bid what is on an APPROVED plan.

"..... later is told that what the inspector had required is not good enough ????"
That's why I always leave a hand out on site on every rough addition that combines OBBC [Ohio Basic Building Code] smoke alarm section 313, manufacturers required listing specs, and NFPA 72 applicable requirements. . That way a problem later on is avoided.

"The plans had to go through plan review.Is it the EC`s job to question that review???? We bid what is on an APPROVED plan."
Our plan reviewer stamps every print that comes thru for review with a stamp that says the smokes in the whole house must be brought up to current code. . And from looking at that stamp, if you don't know what the specific requirements are, you can ask.

If there are plan reviews being done that don't handle it in that way, then I would agree with you that there is a problem coming back later and "changing the rules during the game".

David

 

[barbeer]

In residential applications, I have never seen a Fire marshall do an inspection, therefore it is the responsibility of ALL inspectors to enforce ALL applicable codes.

 

[problemsolver600]

Is it a bed room?

Is it a bed room?

I've been adding smoke detectors in homes for several years here in the Chicago, Cook County, area. Each time we pull a permit to put in a sun room in many communities we have to upgrade smoke detectors to "current code", one in each bed room, and one within 15 feet outside. In one home a "home office" was just inside the front door, and an elderly relative was sleeping in the dining room. I had to put a detector in the "office" but one was not required in the dining room.

The BOCA (?) definition listed in the code requiremnent defines a bedroom as a room with a closet. If a home addition is not a bedroom,( does not have a closet ), it would not require a smoke detector. Now that 2007 is with us, here in Illinois we also need to put a CO detector in that area outside the bedroom.

One split level owner stood at the top of stairs and looked at five smoke detectors in view, one in the hall, and one in each adjacent bedroom and griped about waste. His wife thanked me profusely.

Can we be too safe?

Happy New Year!

 

[llverbeek]

IRC/IBC explains where smoke detectors need to be (and further describes the trigger to bring the remaining structure into compliance). Lots of jurisdictions are going more restrictive than the Code - sometimes to include when the house sells and when it is a rental property .. (lots of recent history to support it, imho)

 

[dnem]

In one home a "home office" was just inside the front door, and an elderly relative was sleeping in the dining room. I had to put a detector in the "office" but one was not required in the dining room.

Ohio Code 313.1 says,
1. In each sleeping room.
2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.

So it uses the words "sleeping room", "sleeping area", and "bedrooms"

The BOCA (?) definition listed in the code requiremnent defines a bedroom as a room with a closet. If a home addition is not a bedroom,( does not have a closet ), it would not require a smoke detector.

We enforce any room that is being used as a sleeping room/area.
And any room that could be used as a bedroom and has a closet.

If the home office, right inside the front door, has glass doors it wouldn't appear to me to be bedroom usable even if it had a closet.

David

 

[problemsolver600]

Even Better

Even Better

Ohio Code 313.1 says,
1. In each sleeping room.
2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.

So it uses the words "sleeping room", "sleeping area", and "bedrooms"



We enforce any room that is being used as a sleeping room/area.
And any room that could be used as a bedroom and has a closet.

If the home office, right inside the front door, has glass doors it wouldn't appear to me to be bedroom usable even if it had a closet.

David

If homes never changed hands, it might not be an issue, but I would think any room you can close the door to and sleep in should have smoke detector protection. The next homeowner might have 16 kids.

The home office had a nice coredoor, no glass, but again, that can change.

gary