Smoke Detector question

[dwellselectric]

I will be wiring a duxple house soon and my question is do I have to interconnect the smokes in both units together? I have never wired a duplex so I have no clue

 

[mdshunk]

No. In fact, I believe it is flatly prohibited to do so.

 

[mdshunk]

Note that the notification requirement is for each dwelling unit (singular), and not all dwelling units. The notification requirement for apartment buildings (3 or more units) has more stricter language that prohibits cross-notification between dwelling units. For one and two family, it's not really prohibited, per se, but just not required.


11.5.1 * One- and Two-Family Dwelling Units.
11.5.1.1 Smoke Detection. Where required by applicable
laws, codes, or standards for the specified occupancy, approved
single- and multiple-station smoke alarms shall be installed
as follows:
(1) In all sleeping rooms
Exception: Smoke alarms shall not be required in sleeping rooms in
existing one- and two-family dwelling units.
(2) Outside of each separate sleeping area, in the immediate
vicinity of the sleeping rooms
(3) On each level of the dwelling unit, including basements
Exception: In existing one- and two-family dwelling units, approved
smoke alarms powered by batteries shall be permitted.
11.5.1.2 Notification.
(A) Fire-warning equipment for dwelling units shall provide a
sound that is audible in all occupiable dwelling areas.
(B) Where more than one smoke or heat alarm is installed
for new construction, they shall be arranged so that the operation
of any smoke or heat alarm causes the alarm in all smoke
and heat alarms within the dwelling unit to sound.

 

[celtic]

(3) On each level of the dwelling unit, including basements
Exception: In existing one- and two-family dwelling units, approved
smoke alarms powered by batteries shall be permitted.

Note that if there is "common area" (basements, stairwells, hallways) these smokes gt connected to themselves - NOT the units smokes - to the "house" panel.

 

[mdshunk]

Note that if there is "common area" (basements, stairwells, hallways) these smokes gt connected to themselves - NOT the units smokes - to the "house" panel.

Yeah, NFPA goes into that more in the apartment building section. Seems like we usually end up using a regular cheap FA panel for the common areas in apartment buildings to handle the pull stations and so fourth.

The section I quoted would apply more to townhouse units (or the OP's duplex example), where a basement and attic area would be only for each unit, and not a common area.

 

[celtic]

The section I quoted would apply more to townhouse units (or the OP's duplex example), where a basement and attic area would be only for each unit, and not a common area.

What IF .....

It is just a simple duplex/triplex?

No pullstations....no FACP...etc?
"Standard" 110v w/battery back up units?

 

[mdshunk]

What IF .....

It is just a simple duplex/triplex?

No pullstations....no FACP...etc?
"Standard" 110v w/battery back up units?

That's the way I read NFPA72, yes.

No common areas means no "building" FA system. Just regular hardwired interconnected smokes. Seems like you could have a 100 unit building, and if it had no common areas, there'd be no FACP. This isn't really an area I know much about, but I can read pretty well. :smile: I hope somebody will correct me if I have it wrong.

 

[dwellselectric]

:smile: Its just a duplex house and the basement is split into two areas so I will connect each area basement with the smokes of that unit Thank you guys for your help

 

[mdshunk]

:smile: Its just a duplex house and the basement is split into two areas so I will connect each area basement with the smokes of that unit Thank you guys for your help

Sounds like you've got it straight. For completeness sake, here's the section that prohibits cross-notification between units when the building is 3 or more dwelling units:

(C)* The alarm shall sound only within the dwelling unit and
shall not actuate the building fire alarm system, unless otherwise
permitted by the authority having jurisdiction. Remote
annunciation shall be permitted.

 

[celtic]

:smile: Its just a duplex house and the basement is split into two areas so I will connect each area basement with the smokes of that unit Thank you guys for your help

How is the basement "split"?

Actual fire rated walls...or an imaginary line down the middle ....

 

[celtic]

What IF .....

It is just a simple duplex/triplex?

No pullstations....no FACP...etc?
"Standard" 110v w/battery back up units?

That's the way I read NFPA72, yes.

No common areas means no "building" FA system. Just regular hardwired interconnected smokes. Seems like you could have a 100 unit building, and if it had no common areas, there'd be no FACP. This isn't really an area I know much about, but I can read pretty well. :smile: I hope somebody will correct me if I have it wrong.

I don't think I expalined myself clearly...but in any event...

IF the property has "common areas" a FACP would be required...along with horn/strobes in the individual units tied into the FACP (common area devices) to notify the individual units...as well as an interconnect between the individual units back to the FACP for central station monitoring?

 

[mdshunk]

IF the property has "common areas" a FACP would be required...along with horn/strobes in the individual units tied into the FACP (common area devices) to notify the individual units...as well as an interconnect between the individual units back to the FACP for central station monitoring?

That doesn't seem to be the case, the way I read it, but I'm still trying to get my head around it. Matter of fact, it says that remote annunciation of the individual dwelling unit's "systems" is optional. I also don't see a horn/strobe requirement in each dwelling unit from the common area FACP. In fact, Annex A of NFPA72 suggests that the horn in the hallway is often sufficient notification from the building FA system. Any fire alarm guys here?

 

[wbalsam1]

Note that the notification requirement is for each dwelling unit (singular), and not all dwelling units. The notification requirement for apartment buildings (3 or more units) has more stricter language that prohibits cross-notification between dwelling units. For one and two family, it's not really prohibited, per se, but just not required.

Bold/underlined emphasis is my editing of your text. 210.25 prohibits branch circuits from dwelling A from supplying devices, etc., in dwelling B. This includes all circuits...even smoke detectors. What a tenant does to his/her circuits cannot affect another tenant's circuits. :smile: A dwelling unit cannot share common circuits. If there is a common area between two dwelling units, this area must be served from a "house meter".

 

[mdshunk]

210.25 prohibits branch circuits from dwelling A from supplying devices, etc., in dwelling B. This includes all circuits...even smoke detectors. What a tenant does to his/her circuits cannot affect another tenant's circuits. :smile:

True, that's a pretty fundamental code section that hadn't really crossed my mind for this sort of thing.

 

[dwellselectric]

Firewall rated seperation

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Lets not forget about CO Detectors. Starting January 1, 2008 there are new requirements in NYS regarding CO Detectors. The reference is Section 611 p. 43 of the Fire Code of NYS - 2007. This section has been completely revised and the changes are significant. (if not complied with, probably very costly as well)

 

[mdshunk]

Lets not forget about CO Detectors. Starting January 1, 2008 there are new requirements in NYS regarding CO Detectors. The reference is Section 611 p. 43 of the Fire Code of NYS - 2007. This section has been completely revised and the changes are significant. (if not complied with, probably very costly as well)

Is this basicly CO detection on the lowest sleeping level? Can it be complied with by substituting a combo smoke/CO detector for a regular detector location?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Is this basicly CO detection on the lowest sleeping level? Can it be complied with by substituting a combo smoke/CO detector for a regular detector location?[/quote]


No, the requirements in NYS have been completely revised - they used to take one paragraph, now the requirements are almost a full page. They are referenced at: Residential Code NYS and the Fuel Code of NYS.


Combination type detectors are permitted. Some locations may be different than for smokes. It is best to read the actual documentationfor location details.

 

[wbalsam1]

In NY State, CO detectors in new construction are required to be on a lighting circuit. This is no longer a requirement for the single and multiple station smoke detectors since they are required to have a battery backup. (It was a requirement under our old Title 9 code). So when contractors are putting their combination CO/SD in the hallway adjacent to sleeping rooms on the lowest level (that has sleeping) they must have the whole SD/CO circuit on a lighting circuit. If they opt to have strictly a CO detector on a circuit without the SD's, it must be on a lighting circuit. :smile:

And of course our "new" RCNYS (based on the 2002 NEC) will require AFCI protection of the "Entire" circuit for all 120 volt 15 & 20 amp outlets within the bedrooms. The exceptions noted at 2005 NEC 210.12 will not be allowed to be substituted in 1 & 2 family dwellings, but will be permitted in multiple dwelling buildings. :smile:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

In NY State, CO detectors in new construction are required to be on a lighting circuit. This is no longer a requirement for the single and multiple station smoke detectors since they are required to have a battery backup. (It was a requirement under our old Title 9 code). So when contractors are putting their combination CO/SD in the hallway adjacent to sleeping rooms on the lowest level (that has sleeping) they must have the whole SD/CO circuit on a lighting circuit. If they opt to have strictly a CO detector on a circuit without the SD's, it must be on a lighting circuit. :smile:

And of course our "new" RCNYS (based on the 2002 NEC) will require AFCI protection of the "Entire" circuit for all 120 volt 15 & 20 amp outlets within the bedrooms. The exceptions noted at 2005 NEC 210.12 will not be allowed to be substituted in 1 & 2 family dwellings, but will be permitted in multiple dwelling buildings. :smile:

where are you reading this in the RBCNYS?
I am reading it differently in R313.1.2 and R 313.4.3.

I know you are very familar with the NYS codes, so this is confusing me.