quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
A zero amperage circuit mounted on the ceiling away from everything is in jeopardy of what??????? What are you protecting this from??? Exactly???????
Smoke Detectors on Arc Fault Breakers
- Thread starter mpowers
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
No, the cow was trying to say it was foolish to connect a smoke alarm to an AFCI protected circuit because furniture is not placed against it.
The fact is the intent of 210.12 is the protection of the entire circuit that is not in a metal wiring system.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Why on an Arc-Fault?
Why on an Arc-Fault?
:-?LIFE Safety circuits, not on GFCI. I do not do residential, but!
Who would put a smoke alarm system on a General use circuit with other outlets in there own house?
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72?-2007, National Fire Alarm Code?, for information related to secondary power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in dwelling units.
Exception No. 2: Where a branch circuit to a fire alarm system installed in accordance with 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) is installed in RMC, IMC, EMT, or steel armored cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes, AFCI protection shall be permitted to be omitted.
Why on an Arc-Fault?
:-?LIFE Safety circuits, not on GFCI. I do not do residential, but!
Who would put a smoke alarm system on a General use circuit with other outlets in there own house?
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72?-2007, National Fire Alarm Code?, for information related to secondary power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in dwelling units.
Exception No. 2: Where a branch circuit to a fire alarm system installed in accordance with 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) is installed in RMC, IMC, EMT, or steel armored cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes, AFCI protection shall be permitted to be omitted.
- Location
- Massachusetts
That would be the difference.:smile:
Many people, and some areas actually require it. The idea being the homeowner will not just shut off a dedicated smoke alarm circuit when they burn the toast.
Personally I would, and have in my own home connected the smoke alarms to a hall lighting circuit.
There is nothing in Article 760 that applies to home line voltage interconnected smoke alarms.
What you posted from 760 applies to a FACP installed in a home.
- Location
- Massachusetts
By the way, under the 2008 NEC even a dedicated circuit for smoke alarms would be required to be AFCI protected.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Now let’s not confuse a “smoke alarm” and a “fire alarm system”
There is a big difference between the two and I am sure that anyone who makes such installations would know the difference.
EDITED TO ADD:
Yea, what Bob said
Last edited:
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
What would be wrong with haveing smoke detectors installed on a general use circuit?
Mass building code requires this. The idea is that is when the smokes sound and you turn off the breaker untill they clear and forget to turn them back on you will notice that yoiu have no lights and turn the circuit back on.
Makes more sense then having them on a dedicated circuit imo.
Also smoke detectors are not a fire alarm system.
Building Codes Division Statewide Interpretation (OREGON)
Building Codes Division Statewide Interpretation (OREGON)
Was Just a Question Guys
MY 6 Home Smoke detectors installed as required by Sate code and Foster Care requirements are Inter-Connected. Arc-Fault Option was Clarified and Provided by State AS ADDRESSED HERE in LOCAL CODES.
this was Re-issued April 1st, 2008
PROGRAM: Electrical Program
SUBJECT: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters
SOURCE: NEC 2005 Section 210.12
REFERENCE: Oregon Residential Specialty Code and Oregon Electrical
Specialty Code
DATE OF ISSUE: April 1, 2005
QUESTION: How are Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters to be used in a remodel situation or with dedicated receptacles, smoke detectors? Also, new construction?
ANALYSIS:
210.12 of the 2005 National Electrical Code clearly requires that all branch circuits supplying 125 volt 15 and 20 ampere outlets installed in a dwelling unit bedroom shall be protected by an AFCI. Generally, this would be accomplished through the use of an AFCI circuit breaker installed in the panelboard or adding an AFCI device within 6 feet of the panelboard as allowed by 210.12 exceptions.
Smoke detectors being installed on circuits protected by AFCI devices raises the concern that a nuisance trip or an actual fault may result in a smoke detector not functioning due to a discharged or removed battery. The requirement for the smoke detector to have a 10-year battery has been clarified by the State Fire Marshal?s office and requires the smoke detector to have a 10-year battery only if the smoke detector is solely battery powered. Additionally, concerns have been raised about dedicated medical equipment and other life safety devices being on an AFCI protected circuit.
DETERMINATION:
?..
New construction shall meet the requirements of the prevailing Oregon Electrical Specialty Code and Oregon Residential Specialty Code, however, smoke detectors, nurse call, fire alarm or dedicated medical equipment shall not be required to be installed on AFCI protected circuits.
Building Codes Division Statewide Interpretation (OREGON)
Was Just a Question Guys
MY 6 Home Smoke detectors installed as required by Sate code and Foster Care requirements are Inter-Connected. Arc-Fault Option was Clarified and Provided by State AS ADDRESSED HERE in LOCAL CODES.
this was Re-issued April 1st, 2008
PROGRAM: Electrical Program
SUBJECT: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters
SOURCE: NEC 2005 Section 210.12
REFERENCE: Oregon Residential Specialty Code and Oregon Electrical
Specialty Code
DATE OF ISSUE: April 1, 2005
QUESTION: How are Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupters to be used in a remodel situation or with dedicated receptacles, smoke detectors? Also, new construction?
ANALYSIS:
210.12 of the 2005 National Electrical Code clearly requires that all branch circuits supplying 125 volt 15 and 20 ampere outlets installed in a dwelling unit bedroom shall be protected by an AFCI. Generally, this would be accomplished through the use of an AFCI circuit breaker installed in the panelboard or adding an AFCI device within 6 feet of the panelboard as allowed by 210.12 exceptions.
Smoke detectors being installed on circuits protected by AFCI devices raises the concern that a nuisance trip or an actual fault may result in a smoke detector not functioning due to a discharged or removed battery. The requirement for the smoke detector to have a 10-year battery has been clarified by the State Fire Marshal?s office and requires the smoke detector to have a 10-year battery only if the smoke detector is solely battery powered. Additionally, concerns have been raised about dedicated medical equipment and other life safety devices being on an AFCI protected circuit.
DETERMINATION:
?..
New construction shall meet the requirements of the prevailing Oregon Electrical Specialty Code and Oregon Residential Specialty Code, however, smoke detectors, nurse call, fire alarm or dedicated medical equipment shall not be required to be installed on AFCI protected circuits.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Yes and we just answered it. :smile:
Smoke Detectors connect to an FACP
The line voltage devices commonly installed in homes are not smoke detectors, they are UL listed as Smoke Alarms.
So if what you posted above is in fact word for word it does not apply to the smoke alarms that are the subject of this thread. :smile:
- Location
- Massachusetts
No problem and if any of us sounded rude I am sure none of us meant it.
I am mostly a commercial guy my self and of course I would use a dedicated circuit for the FACP and would not use a GFCI or AFCI to supply it. :smile:
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
- Location
- Massachusetts
Cool, thanks for posting it.
I notice not required but also not prohibited. :smile:
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
I Have the NEC CD, Loose Leaf Binder and Soft Cover. all first Drafts.
None have Exception 3
Time to Get ERRATA DATA from Nfpa web site.
Exception 3 is Oregon's addition.
:smile:
brother
Senior Member
Ive heard about Wa state, not adopting that afci, im glad they decided not to expand that.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
I just went through the 2005 on afcis and I have no Idea what you are refrencing from the posts. I agree that outlets get smashd all the time by furniture and case fires. I agree that aluminum wireing causes fires from poor connections. I dont agree at all that a low current circuit with devices mounted on the ceiling are in any danger of physical damage that could cause a fire. I dont agree that the low current devices are likely to cause a fire. I doubt a smoke detector/alarm ever caused a fire. This is my point
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
AFCIs aren't just to protect the outlets and utilization equipment, it also protects the wiring. The wiring of smokes isn't immune to nails, squirrels, mice, etc.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Look at the difference between 210.8 which requires GFCI protection for only the outlet (receptacle) and 210.12 which requires AFCI protection for the entire circuit.
AFCI protection is intended to protect the wiring in the walls as much as the equipment beyond the outlets.
That really has nothing to do with it, we must provide AFCI protection to the branch circuit conductors supplying the outlets for those devices.
You may well be right, but that is not the only thing 210.12 addresses.
- Status