Smoke/heat detector question

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danickstr

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If I have smokes in each bedroom, do I need to put one in a connecting hall that is only 6 feet long? It has a low ceiling and the owner says it will look stupid, and I agree. The bedrooms are at each end, and the hall spills into a dining kitchen area.
 
Not according to the NEC. This question will be answered in your local fire and/or building codes.

In this area, the answer would be yes. We are required to have a smoke/CO detector outside of the sleeping area.
 
danickstr said:
If I have smokes in each bedroom, do I need to put one in a connecting hall that is only 6 feet long? It has a low ceiling and the owner says it will look stupid, and I agree. The bedrooms are at each end, and the hall spills into a dining kitchen area.
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In NY State, smokes are required on every level of the home, in each sleeping space and adjacent to each sleeping space and a CO detector is required on the lowest level that has sleeping. The smokes are required to be interconnected so that when one alarms, they all do. They're also required to have battery backup. Also the CO detector is required to be on a lighting circuit ahead of any intervening switches. :smile:
 
peter d said:
Not according to the NEC. This question will be answered in your local fire and/or building codes.

In this area, the answer would be yes. We are required to have a smoke/CO detector outside of the sleeping area.
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The NEC would not be your best resource when designing a fire alarm system. You should check in NFPA 72 - National Fire Alarm Code.

11.5.1.1 (2) Outside of each seperate dwelling unit sleeping area, within 21ft of any door to a sleepng room, the distance measured along a path of travel.

So, the smoke detector outside of the bedroom is required.

Also, danickstr, I would not let a customer steer me into a code violation regarding life safety on the basis of "Looking stupid."
 
how it looks should never be a parameter when determining whether or not to install a life safety device; how it functions should be. If the occupants of the sleeping areas have their doors closed at night and the fire occurs in or near the hallway, they would be well served by having a detector there. NFPA 72, just like NEC, is a minimum code - If you are going to go to the trouble of installing smokes/fire detection, make it as safe as it can be based on worst case scenario. The additional cost is minimal.
 
Rich Elec. said:
11.5.1.1 (2) Outside of each seperate dwelling unit sleeping area, within 21ft of any door to a sleepng room, the distance measured along a path of travel.
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Thought it was 12', then again i could be thinking of a different code, or dyslexia. ;)
 
danickstr said:
If I have smokes in each bedroom, do I need to put one in a connecting hall that is only 6 feet long?
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As others have mentioned, this is a code that is generally imposed by State authorities. Here in NJ we are required to have both interconnected smoke alarms in the bedroom area and smoke and CO detectors in common hallways irrespective of the size of the area. The CO detectors are not required to be interconnected with the smoke alarms and can be plug-in units, if desired. BTW, the last job I did I used combination Firex units in this area and after numerous fault conditions that caused the units to chirp and after I replaced them 3 times I finally changed them over to smoke alarms and plug-in CO units.
It has a low ceiling and the owner says it will look stupid,
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Again, as others have stated, don't get caught up in ridiculous comments made by homeowners. Cite the code to them and let them take their own time to go down to the township and see if they can apply for a "variation in the code" (quite different than a variance) and see how far they get.

Edited for grammar.
 
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I knew this was not a NEC thing but we do end up installing these things, so I thought I would ask...

I appreciate all the answers.

I would be interested to know if it is 12 or 21 feet from the door of the sleeping room, since I could qualify the kitchen one that is already there at 21 feet.
 
danickstr said:
I knew this was not a NEC thing but we do end up installing these things, so I thought I would ask...

I appreciate all the answers.

I would be interested to know if it is 12 or 21 feet from the door of the sleeping room, since I could qualify the kitchen one that is already there at 21 feet.
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Unless there is a specific distance prescribed by a local code, then I would fall back on the manufacturer's recommendations, instructions, or listing. Typically the term "adjacent to" is not defined. :smile:
 
Rich Elec. said:
The NEC would not be your best resource when designing a fire alarm system. You should check in NFPA 72 - National Fire Alarm Code.
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I do not think it is correct to call smoke alarms a "Fire Alarm System"

I will back Peter up and say check with your local AHJ / Fire department, the rules for dwelling unit smoke alarms and CO detectors are often modified by each local area.
 
wbalsam1 said:
In NY State, smokes are required on every level of the home, in each sleeping space and adjacent to each sleeping space and a CO detector is required on the lowest level that has sleeping. The smokes are required to be interconnected so that when one alarms, they all do. They're also required to have battery backup. Also the CO detector is required to be on a lighting circuit ahead of any intervening switches. :smile:
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And...
Those requirements are changing as of Jan 1, 2008.
 
danickstr said:
I knew this was not a NEC thing but we do end up installing these things, so I thought I would ask...
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If they are going by NFPA 72, I've paraphrased it here.

I would be interested to know if it is 12 or 21 feet from the door of the sleeping room, since I could qualify the kitchen one that is already there at 21 feet.
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21 feet, by NFPA 72.
 
831 said:
That's a common phrase these days. :confused:
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this was not code related, but rather one person's commentary.:)

interesting note is the beam ceiling fiasco I heard about that involved the AHJ asking for a smoke in the living room at every bay.

regarding the hall: since this application has a bathroom in it, NFPA 72 says that no smoke is allowed within 3 feet of the bathroom door, if there is a shower or tub, so the hall is not a possible spot anyway.
 
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